Plastics came of the GFR this morning. The multitude of little screws were no problem and I eventually remembered that you have to remove the upper fairing tube bracket to make it easier, even though the BOL claims you don't have to. The oil pump is obviously getting oil. The cable wasn't broken. Adjustment a tiny bit 'lean' at tick-over position, but with the throttle wide (as it was at the time of the incident) the quadrant is against the stop so I can't see that being a problem. Fair amount of oil splatter around the exhaust port/expansion chamber joint which is a good sign. The main coolant supply or return? hose is a bit kinked, but seeing as the hoses all have their original nasty OEM clips any restriction should have shown up before. See photo: http://www.ps-fisher.demon.co.uk/pickchurs/gfr_hose.jpg Next step is to drain the cooling system so I take off the radiator cap. WTF!!!??? No visible coolant in the rad. I had checked the expansion bottle before the run and OK it was low so I topped it up. I am used to doing this fairly regularly on the other one. The radiator cap itself is inaccessible without partially removing the top fairing. There had been no sign of any coolant leak, and there is evidence of one in the past. The level in the expansion tank is still above minimum. It will be interesting to see just how much coolant drains out of the system. The temperature gauge senders can be suspect, but IME a faulty one on the other bike read too high, not low. So it is looking like an overheating seizure due to lack of coolant, with no warning because the gauge was lying. TBF it was pretty hot when I stopped. The trouble is, a full fairing insulates you from the rising heat which might otherwise have alerted me. Engine out later today with luck and I will probably will at least lift the head myself and possibly the cylinder before taking it to SWK. They can also check the operation of the oil pump. Hopefully a phone call to Uncle Bob Wright will confirm that he can supply a new cylinder/piston/gaskets. Won't try to re-assemble it myself as the workshop manual warns about getting the 'squish' exactly right with a dial gauge (six thickness values of base gasket available). -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
Pete Fisher says... You can measure squish with a roll of solder and a micrometer. Get the piston at BDC, feed the solder into the spark plug hole to the edge of the cylinder, turn the engine over one revolution and remove the solder for measuring with the micrometer. -- Lozzo Triumph Daytona 955i SE Suzuki SV650 K3 Honda CBR600 F-W Suzuki GSX-R750L Yamaha SR250 SpazzTrakka
[Point of clarification first. I meant to type *NO* evidence of a coolant leak in the past.] I know the theory. Just not sure I could execute it properly, even if I possessed a micrometer. John at Revs is regularly builds stroker MX motors so I think I will leave it to him. I used to nail the old air-cooled Rotax back together myself, but with 33BHP from 125cc I suspect the opportunities for me fucking it up are too many. In any case, with such a tiny motor I can lift it easily in to the back of the car and take it over to Halesowen. Then I can turn my attention to resurrecting the Morini 'racer' rolling chassis (250 frame, but with 350 Marzocchi front forks and 350 rear wheel) ready for next season. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
Aha! I wondered whether the system was just so low that a false reading might result. Still wondering if the 'kinked' hose might be a factor, perhaps causing an air lock preventing filling to a correct level. In the parts list it looks to be a proper moulded elbow hose IYSWIM. When I had the radiator rebuilt on the other one I don't remember the hose being at all kinked. Either this is throwback to a Friday afternoon in Arcore 14 years ago (I could believe the hose had never replaced because the OEM clips are a real pain without the special clamp pliers - special tool Y.20544!), or someone has rebuilt it[1] using a bit of general purpose hose that was a tad too long and not stiff enough. Needless to say, I should have checked the radiator proper not just the expansion tank. If I could have without having to partially free the front fairing I *might* have. A classic case of wrongly believing a gauge - my own little 'China Syndrome'. Yes I know in that case the gauge was stuck, so not really the same, but the meltdown reference seems appropriate. [1] Now I know who the original owner is, a rebuild is almost certainly the case. I was pleased at first because he told me at Cadwell that it has (or at least used to have "trick bits" inside). The performance seemed to bear that out. Whether he sowed the seeds for a later blow up by bodging the hose I don't know. As I said, both the last two owners have been 'polishers' and probably could have pootled it round gently occasionally to no ill effect in blissful ignorance of the low coolant level. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
And mine when the coolant tank cracked and the engine boiled itself dry. What little fluid was left was bubbling away in the tank like a kettle, but the gauge said all was hunky dory.
They all do that: the sensor will pick up on the temperature in the surrounding area, whether it is the air in the system or the metal it is screwed into. Deceptive bastards. In the days when I ran Dolomite Sprints (probably the car most liable to head gasket blowing(apart from the Stag, now I consider it)) I'd thrash them on the temperature gauge. As soon as the gauge went beyond its normal position I'd have to back off and let it settle, as the radiator was so marginal even with a big Kenlowe fan bolted to it that the motor would get so hot that the head would flex, shift and the gasket would let go. As soon as the needle came back down, it was good to redline again for another twenty minutes or so. Sitting in traffic was always an exercise in testing nerve and starter motor response, as the marginal rad combined with a poor water pump and insane head bolt placement would again lead to the needle climbing. I always knew when it had popped coolant out as the needle would rise and then fall too quickly, then sit a needle-width below where it should do - that meant that the sensor wasn't in coolant any more and shit would ensue if it wasn't dealt with immediately. I still habitually watch temp gauges like a hawk.
ogden says... Common fault on a ZX7R coolant overflow tank. My mate reckons if it's not leaking you've run out of coolonat, cos they all leak. -- Lozzo Triumph Daytona 955i SE Suzuki SV650 K3 Honda CBR600 F-W Suzuki GSX-R750L Yamaha SR250 SpazzTrakka
So do I as a GFR is warming up. You need to watch for the dip after the initial climb that indicates that the thermostat has opened. If you give it the beans before that you risk a cold seizure as cold coolant rushes in to the cylinder jacket. Wise advice though. If I had been watching the gauge like a hawk once warm, a rapid rise, even though not in to the red, might have alerted me before the damage was done. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+
he got a job so he might have a bit less time to lurk. i had similar problems, you just replace the coolant tank.
Same with the 916 line - the tank has a seam which usually lets go; not surprising given the pressure. The only problem is that it's right by the headstock so you end up with coolant spraying in your face!
<AOL> But then I had a Cortina which the previous owner (one of my brothers) had had a 2L engine put in instead of the standard 1.6. But not bothered to change the carbs or exhaust manifold. In the course of fitting the 2L block the bodger that had done it had bolted back on all the peripherals from the 1.6 that would fit (water pump being one of them) with whatever nuts and bolts he/she/it had lying around. Which meant that it was a real mixture of imperial & metric screw threads used throughout - some of which used in places where they didn't really fit but a bit of extra grunt could make them.. The aforementioned water pump would vibrate itself loose with monotonous regularity. I replaced the nuts, used locking washers, Araldite, drilled locking holes in the bolt and lockwired it all to no avail. So I too got used to watching the temperature gauge like a hawk. I used to keep a gallon drum of water in the boot along with a bagful of nuts. As soon as the temp gauge shot upwards I'd know that the water pump had vibrated loose again so I'd pull over, tighten it up (replacing any nuts that had fallen off) and refill it with water. Still - as a first car it tought me one valuable lesson - never buy a Cortina again.. Phil.
That'd be when Daz decided that because the temperature had dropped back down again all was well in his World?
Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Champ "Aoooh roight! Sew the enjin's fooked then? Owe booger..." -- Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest" WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41 SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner", Honda GL1000K2 (Fallen apart) Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Honda ST1100 wiv trailer Norton 850 Commando Kawasaki GTR1400
