[QUOTE] Fairy nuff, you don't have to listen to us HG evangelists.[/QUOTE] As i said, their stuff seems pretty good. But <shock> there was a world before Hein Gericke and I'm just interested to see what else is out there. And btw, chap in the HG Harrow store today was stellar (been there 3 mths he said, and on his 3rd manager/boss), knew his stuff pretty well.