Why synthetic oil weeps

No that is completely wrong. "Synthetic" does not attribute any
additional detergent action. Many performance motorcycle-targeted
synthetic oils have much less detergent action than average automotive
oils on the premise that it will be changed often so detergent isn't
needed.

Run something like Delvac, Delo, or Rotella-T for a few hours in such an
engine and the oil instantly turns black. Detergent at work. Discolored
oil is good. Oil which stays "clean" is bad because its being John Wayne
Toilet Paper: doesn't take s**t from no one.

The purpose of detergent is less to lift junk off surfaces than to keep
the junk small and suspended so that it never gets deposited before the
oil is changed. Remember oil doesn't make the dirt so its not the oil's
fault if there is dirt in your engine. And what there is is generally
too small for any oil filter to catch.

 

That sounds like B.S. Please find the article if you can.

A smaller "multiweight" spread *is* better. The smaller the spread the
easier it is to do, and the easier it is to do the more stable the end
result. Synthetic manufacturing can provide greater control of the
hydrocarbon selection in the final cocktail, which would result in the
need for less editing with additives such as viscosity modifiers. The
base oil is more stable than the modifiers.

But just because its synthetic doesn't mean it will automatically have
superior viscosity stability. Often synthetic processes are used to
produce oil with extremely wide range, such as 5W50 which becomes only
an average oil in viscosity stability. Classic refining processes plus
additives can not produce a satisfactory 5W50 oil.

Think you are confusing "dirty" with "worn out." One can not see "worn
out" as one can not see the stress in oil which has lost its viscosity
range.

It is true that some oils do not wear out as fast as others. However it
is beyond us mere mortals without proper laboratories to know which oils
that is. One can not tell by color. One can not trust advertising
claims. Motor oils in North America lack an independent rating system as
to their useful life. The "3 month/3000 mile oil change" forces are
running the show.

 

You know, I don't mind you disagreeing with me at all. But if you used that
attitude to my face I'd deck your ass in a heartbeat.

Ed Cregger

 

Yeah, right. Big Man!

Post crap on Usenet, and you get called out for it. Learn to live with
the shame.

And if you even thought about it, you'd see I was calling the dealers'
assertion into question, not yours.

I think you owe an apology, Big Man.

 

Much of what I have said comes from a lot of reading about 20 years ago.
Haven't seen anything to the contrary since. Interesting how the "oil
seal" thing still lingers because it was a part of modern folklore back
then as well.

Didn't have Google back then either. Some interesting links:

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/synthetic-oil.html says:

 

I certainly am not claiming that you imagined oil leaks in ancient days.
As I wrote in another fork on this thread that in ancient times before
synthetic motor oil it was "common knowledge" that changing to a
different oil often caused oil leaks.

Much of the dumbed-down-for-the-masses discussion of difference between
synthetic and refined motor oil says synthetic has smaller molecules
which do not break down in to even smaller molecules as easily as the
long molecules often found in refined oil. Some might think a longer
molecule equates to higher viscosity. I think that what is really
happening is the designer has more control of what gets put in a
synthetic motor oil than a typical refined oil. If he wants long
molecule chains then he gets long molecule chains.

Early synthetic motor oil was something like 0W-20. Thinking of the
first Mobil-1 I bought in the early 1980's in a metal can. The claim was
the superior synthetic design did not need the added viscosity refined
oils needed. Possibly this is where your dealership is drawing the
"lower viscosity component" statement. Was once true but that was a long
time ago.

When oil is rated 20W-50, a lot of people do not understand what is
being said. There are two tests applied, The 20W represents the coldest
temperature the specified API/SAE test pump can suck the oil out of a
crankcase and push it thru an engine. The "50" says the oil is
comparable to standard straight-weight 50 oil at 212°F.

Thats just two points on a curve and doesn't say much about the shape of
the curve. A modern synthetic can have a flatter slope of the curve
below the rated "W" temperature. Also modern oil pumps can pull thick
oil out of the crankcase better than the pre-WWII pumps when the API/SAE
standard was set. Thats good because per the standard we're talking
about pumping oil on cold start vs. not pumping any oil on cold start.

 

I did. Can I come out now?

Ed Cregger

 

"The Older Gentleman" <>
wrote in message

I do. I apologize.

Ed Cregger

 

message

You are right. That was a puzzling thing to me too. If the
manufacturers recognized the problem and attributed it to
synthetic oil, it would make sense for them to forbid its
use.

Ed Cregger

 

The only time I came close to decking someone was my brother in law. This
genius is the one that used expoxy glue to put up a poster because he
didn't want push pins making holes in the walls. He wasn't worth hitting.

When worked for the local University, the local Mr. Know-it-all decided
to join our regular lunch group. We went to the local burger joint and he
was spouting off about all manner of subjects. I decided that I had
enough so I started asking him all manner of questions. Questions like
what is the name for a person that compulsively steals, compulsivly eats,
is afraid to ride airplanes, and how do water softeners work. I finally
asked him the following.

"Did you ever wake up one morning say it was on a Wednesday and you kept
thinking it was Tuesday and you kept thinking it was Tuesday all day and
then the next day you woke up and everything was OK again?"

He said "Sure. Why"

"What do you call that?"

The whole table started laughing and high 5'ing me and continued laughing
so hard Mr. Know-it-all never said another word for the duration of lunch.

It isn't worth smacking the jerks Ed.

pierce

 

<Eyes widen>

<Hopeful mode>

Seeing as you're in the right frame of mind, any chance of another one,
for your current President?

Oh, and a general one for Barney the dinosaur wouldn't go amiss....

</hopeful mode>

 

"The Older Gentleman" <>
wrote in message

----------------------

I didn't vote for Bush, but I would have, given the
alternative.

No apology from me because of him. Besides, being older
gentlemen, you and I know that he has no real power other
than that of the veto. The same folks that control Europe
also control the USA. We are all victims of the same
globalist plot.

Barney? Well, I just don't watch that level of entertainment
these days. Besides, didn't you blokes come up with The
Teletubbies? <G>

Ed Cregger

 

Guilty as charged.

*Sob*

 

(The Older Gentleman) wrote in

Don't feel so bed. We have Pat Robertson.

 

You are completely wrong.

Thanks,Ripper
We Need DEATH SQUADS in the USA to Get Rid of Terrorists AND Street
Gangs!
BOYCOTT CLASSMATES.COM for their PHONY FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP (NOT)

 

Ok now I have a question. Oh just for those of you that are wondering who I am, I joined the group today. Kinda new here.
Ok...the question. What is the differance between oil that is marked and " Motor Cycle " oil and that of normal car motor oil...????

I have a VT750, that i the Honda Shadow 750 Aero. I bought the bike new so I am its first owner and after the bike got to having some 9,000 Km on it I went from the 20-50 normal oil to pure synth 20-50. Now I have noticed one thing, straight out of the bottle the synth oil pours faster and feel and acts from what I can see and feel as if it was lighter oil, something like 10-30 would pour like.

Now since I have gone from standard oil to synth oil this is what I have noticed. The big one that I feel right off the bat is the clutch feel different and to be frank I like the way it feel, more smooth not so grabby as it was with standard 20-50W oil. Also the engine runs smoother at a ideal hot or cold.

So the main questions are, what makes a oil for motor bike different from that of oil of the same weight and style that you would put in a car...??? Oh and the deal where I bought the bike says that I should not use synth oils in the 750 Shadow, and when I asked why...all I got was that the clutch will not operate properly....I do not know about that, its smoother now then it ever was and I do not feel any clutch slip even when I open it all the way to pull out and pass on a hill.
Second question is...The synth oil pours or seems to pour out of the bottle much easier as if it was lighter weight oil. Now is this just me, or is it really pouring easier then a standard oil of the same weight...? And if it is...then is there a different weight test for a synth then for a standard oil...?

Now to address the others that say they are leaking or burning oil more with synth over that of the standard oils. My bike now has 13,000 Km on it, not much but then I have only had it for just under one year now but I sure did some heavy riding all summer long with it. My bike does not seem to use a drop of oil up, burned or leaked. The book says as I recall 6,000 Km between oil changes, but I do oil changes every 3,000 Km's. I look at it this way...oil is cheap, engine are NOT..!

And here is one more question of sorts. Since my bike is shaft drive that means it has like a rear gear box and this runs with 80SAE weight oil. Has anyone ever used or tryed out synth oil for this...?

Lloyd
North Vancouver

 

<snip>

Oh, God, not again.....

 

Since you are new here, I suggest you head over to a search engine and
search, either the www or the archives for this group, for answers to
your questions. I don't mean to sound like an ass, but if you do some
digging yourself, (at least) two things will happen:
1. You'll find that these are commonly asked questions with easily
available answers, and understand why some of us are a bit tired of
repeating the answers.
2. You will be able to tell us what you know and ask more specific
questions, which makes them easier to answer, and to answer in a way
that you will understand. This saves everyone a lot of effort.

If you search the group archives (get back to us if you can't figure it
out; Google's interface takes a couple of minutes to get working, but
it's not terrible) you'll find that all of your questions have been
discussed in some detail, at great length, and with some heat, in the
past.

That said, I'll provide a capsule summary of said discussions here. I
WILL NOT expand on my answers. You get to do the research if you want
more.

That depends on who you ask. Answers range from "nothing" to "shear
additives" to "MC specific oils have more zinc in them". People use all
sorts of things in their bikes, and get rather upset about other people
using something different.

[snip]

Standard and synthetic oils are graded on the same scale. There's LOTS
of information about motor oil online. Some of it is good, some not.
Separating the types is left as an exercise for the reader.

[snip]

I'm quite sure they have. I strongly suspect that some of those people
have written about their experiences and posted them online.
HTH, and happy reading.

--
Later,
John



'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

 

And what did you expect in Hell? <G>

Ed Cregger

 

Lloyd wrote:

[questions about oils]

Oil is very helpful in prolonging the life of your motorcycle.

Motorcycle oils may differ from automotive oils because motorcycle
oils can use additives that would damage the catalytic converter on
a car.

Automotive oils, particularly the "low friction" oils may cause
problems on bikes which use wet plate clutches and share the
oil between the engine and transmission.

You ought to be able to use synthetic oil in gearboxes where the
gearbox and engine have separate oil supplies. See the caveats
above about wet plate clutches and act with caution if you have one.