Which fully synthetic oil .....

SteveH says...

One bike runs to 100K ok and that's a big thing? OK, Google again and
tell me how many hits you get regarding clutch slip when using car oil.

 

I had a Renault 20 that did that. I used five litres of oil to get to
Brighton, and five litres back again. As the journey was about 15 miles
each way, I'd say that was rather a lot.

 

_some_ car oils. Those with fancy friction reducers in them.

As I've already said, a bog-standard semi-synth will, in 99% of cases,
cause no ill effects whatsoever.

It seems this is backed up by proper chemical research.

There will always be exceptions in the same way that not all bike oils
are good for all bikes, and not all car oils are good for all cars.

 

Aye, but guess who makes Selenia oil?

 

SteveH says...

And those that don't have them aren't worth buying for a decent car
engine, so why put them in a bike engine that is even more stressed?

Less than 99% I think

So why take the chance just to save having 2 bottles of oil in the
garage? Your logic is pretty fucked up imo. You keep running the VFR on
car oil, Steve. It's not like your bike engine gets stressed, but with
regard to Nidge's ZX-6R, he'd be foolish to run it on shitty old Castrol
GTX the way he rides.

GTX was developed way back in the days when long stroke, lazy engines
like the Morris Minor's were the norm. Imo it isn't suitable for the
high revving powerful engines that are built to tighter tolerances we
have today. Horses for courses, and all that.

 

There is a published study somewhere on the web from when a lab tested
car vs bike oil, specifically looking at the areas where bike oil is
claimed to be different i.e. shear strength (to cope with gearboxes) &
the effect on wet clutches.

IIRC they didn't find any difference between the majority of oils, &
specifically hightlighted that some cheap car oils were better than
vastly more expensive bike oils. Incidentally statistics show this
topic accounts for 86% of all internet traffic, the other 14% being how
to scrub in tyres.

 

10 year old research
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

 

Stritchy says...

Things have moved on a long long way since 1994.

 

Or a Guzzi; Trex suffices in these cases

 

That may be true, but it doesn't mean the differences between car &
bike oil are any greater now than they were then. Clutch slip is
undoubtably an issue with *some* oils in *some* bikes, but that's most
likely down to the blend of the oil rather than whether it's
specifically for cars or bikes. For example KTMs are known to have
problems with one particular brand of fully synth bike oil, but not
others.

The argument that fully synth car oil isn't 'good' enough for modern
high performance bike engines doesn't add up in my opinion. The
bearings in a turbo are the hardest challenge for any oil - far harder
than any part of an engine.

Despite that, I still choose to use bike specific oil, and always have
done.

 

Lozzo wrote

Heh, cool, are they still doing this deal ?

Hmm, where's the closest Heinz Gherkin in the city then ...

P.

 

To a point I think... car oils have a different additive package to bike
oils, and takes into account things like wet clutches.

It doesn't make much difference how much the engine revs, above 1500 or
so rpm hydrodynamic lubrication occurs[1], and proper hydrodynamic
lubrication relies a lot on the oil being the right viscosity, as in the
10W-40 bit. The other important bit, is using an oil with enough film
strength for the application it's used for, this is why performance
engines require synthetic oils... Synthetic oils being more resistant to
break down and require less additives to keep them in grade, meaning
more actual oil content getting to your bearings.

[1]I know there are places that hydrodynamic lubrication don't occur,
but depend more on film strength[2].

[2]Boundary Lubrication.

 

Preston Kemp says...

While I accept some points, there is always the argument that over the
last 10 years bike engines have developed further than car engines. They
also need better oil as they are that little bit more fragile. Aprilia
Mille engines suffer with clutch slip no matter what fully synth you
use. The factory recommend a semi-synth be used.

Turo bearings subject the oil to heat more than anything else. They
don't subject it to shear and aeration in the way a bike gearbox does.

I do for my modern engines, I use any old crap in the Honda 250.

 

Zymurgy says...

Yes, carried over to this year's catalogue. I bought some for the
Thunderace before I sold it, and will be getting some for the ZX-9R this
weekend. Apparently they show air filters for both these bikes in the
catalogue, but supply is as bad as it ever was. I ask them to supply a
Bandit air filter or an RF900 one instead cos I can pass that on to a
friend and they then owe me a favour

Stockwell, Gants Hill or Welling are all within easy reach?