Which course?

It takes a while to battle with your brain's internal logic, which keeps
telling you "don't do that, you'll fall over!" - but once you've forced
yourself into following the techniques a few times, you wonder how you
managed to handle the bike without them.

 

On 08/23/11 1:33 PM, arathorn357 wrote:

That's often a great surprise to folk, how much they can learn, and how
many bad habits come to light, just doing the slow maneuvering business
round some witches hats or empty beer cans.

Yup. The best possible option is a one-on-one ride in the "real world",
but then you tend to work more on the "road craft" side of riding rather
than the physical aspects of handling the bike.

For most road riders, the Superbike school level 1 teaches them how hard
they and their bikes, can actually go round a corner.

The public road is no place to practice cornering sufficiently hard that
bits of the bike scrape on the road, but it is useful to know what
scraping bits feels like and how far you can get over, without panicking.

FWIW, and IMHO, level 2 is a bit of a waste of time and money unless you
are going on to do all the levels and want to be a famous hero racer.

The best I could say for L2 is that, if you do two levels in two
successive days, it gives you more time for L1 to sink in and feel comfy.

Not too sure of the value of the videos, but, the rest, I totally agree
with.

Best possible, is one on one.... one instructor, one pupil.

Anything else starts to get complicated and messy, and, again IMHO
dangerous.

Yup, plus so much can be done usefully at low speed on a quiet wee road.

I assume from that that Al is an Motorcycling Australia instructor, so
you'd need to join a pukka MA recognised club.

I must admit to being surprised if the MA insurance would extend to
public roads, but <shrug> I don't claim to know everything.

I think that, if there is money paid, on the public road, you would want
to sight an RTA Instructor's Licence.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

That's an interesting self-observation ...I'd contend every rider, at
some stage in the riding experience, have or have had such
experiences. Go on..admit it you lot

One which the Superbike school syllabus (and core skills) bloody-
mindedly deals with..ie overcoming SR's (survival reflexes).

There has been the occasional banter (in here) over the last months/
years, one train of thought/assumption being that Superbike school is
really only for the go-fast crowd who want to hoon everywhere on
weekends etc.

I haven't done any recent courses from the Other schools (ie
considered to be the more road/"real world" syllabus) but have
completed 3 levels of Superbike.

I am not a hoon..and I even have all my points intact.

The levels are carefully structured over the days work to deconstruct
theory and practical elements of cornering, gradually throwing it all
back together by the end of the day.

I only have an advanced riding course (at Amaroo Park no less, led by
one of the Stay Upright founders..that's how far back that was)
conducted by Stay Upright to compare with but gained far more out of
this single bloody minded focus on getting around corners than the
elements of braking and defensive riding.

So if your overarching interest is to resolve feeling relaxed heading
into corners and confident to know what to do when things get a bit go
a bit awry in the corner, don't discount so quickly the value of doing
the "hoon" course. We _all_ have to do corners at some stage. And the
range of bikes and individuals on the 3 levels suggest that it is far
from being for "hoons".

By all means, if you consider needing a course that refreshes and
reinforces aspects of defensive riding and braking..Superbike is not
for you.

But if weighting your desired outcomes includes any and all of; smooth/
relaxed riding, confidence, thoughtful understanding regarding the
dynamics of riding bikes, accelerating/decelerating and going around
corners then perhaps combine a Level 1 Superbike and follow up with a
roadcraft-oriented course.

But it's not a course for "hoons"...just look at CrazyCam ! and he's
got a beemer too.

 

On 08/23/11 11:00 PM, alx wrote:

Ach, one day, laddie, you will be old enough to get a BMW, too! ;-)

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Now THAT sounds interesting. Do they address that on Level 1?

I've only just now looked at the Superbike School website foor he
first time. I always thought it was "not for me". Now I dunno...

Getting confused again. So many choices, so many courses.

I don't see me becoming a course-junkie. I see me doing maybe two
courses to get "the knowledge" to stay relatively safe whilst motoring
along in a semi-agile fashion, looking cool on my crusier, as well as
trying hard not to rear-end the traffic in the main street as I check
my reflection in the shop windows. ;-))))))

Thanks for the input, alx. But now, collectively, you guys have
shorted out my already overloaded old fart circuits.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhh !!!! Someone please tell me what
I should do !!!!!!!!!!!

My challenge to the brains trust: Elect a chairperson, talk amongst
yourselves until you can come to a group decision as to which two
courses I should do, and in what order I should do them. Start a new
thread for that purpose. Call it Mission Impossible.

(Not gunna happen, is it... :-(((

=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

If you want a training regime that systematically pulls apart the
fundamental aspects of approaching, going through a corner and leaving
in a controlled, reproducible and comprehensible manner, then only a
course that is track-based will work. Separating into elemental drills
and gradually putting all the pieces back together, in a controlled
environment overseen by a hawk-eye'd instructor, will address your
self-confessed bad habits acquired along the way.

Come to think of it..reminiscent of weapons training drills. Or "today
you will learn how to dig holes and fill them in.."

 

Yes. Did I mention throttle control?

Do L1, have an Hallelujah Moment (or two), kick yourself for not
having done it years ago and missed out on the enhanced riding
experiences.

Then do a road-based course to follow up on the bad habits/defensive
riding elements..plus some braking practise.

The investment in time and money is not hard to justify, in comparison
to the $$ on gear/bike and time spent riding and tangible savings in
drycleaning skidmarks.

 

OK, I agree.

Just do it!


regards,
CrazyCam

 

Oh no there young fella! Not so fast! You young uns always in a hurry.


"
M: Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please.
R: Certainly sir. Have you been here before?
M: No, I haven't, this is my first time.
R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you
thinking of taking a course?
M: Well, what is the cost?
R: Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight
pounds for a course of ten.
M: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just
the one and then see how it goes.
R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment.
Pause
R: Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.
Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12.
"

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

 

Thanks, you have finally pushed me to get hold of a copy of "Twist of
the Wrist II" and I watched the first few minutes of it last night.

My problem is commuting is very straight and boring -- all roadcraft
and no twisty-turny corners. In fact, the closest time I came to
losing the back-end was on a very gentle lean through a 90º corner at
less then 40kph, delayed apex turn, with some oil on the road. I felt
the back end sliding out, so I didn't accelerate or brake or steer...
and after a bit the wheel regained traction and I was OK. I don't know
this for certain, but I feel if I was leaning over more when I hit the
oil I would have lost it.

 

You hoon!



There are techniques applicable for commuting.

1. how (and why) to minimise lean angle
2. overcoming survival reflexes (and why)
3. throttle control to deal with traction issues such as damp/wet
conditions
4. choosing lines for corners that minimise lean angle and/or get most
of the turn out of the way as quickly as possible, allowing a more
upright line through the rest of the corner.
5, quick turn for avoiding pedestrians that appear in front of you.

 

"alx" wrote in message

You hoon!



There are techniques applicable for commuting.

1. how (and why) to minimise lean angle
2. overcoming survival reflexes (and why)
3. throttle control to deal with traction issues such as damp/wet
conditions
4. choosing lines for corners that minimise lean angle and/or get most
of the turn out of the way as quickly as possible, allowing a more
upright line through the rest of the corner.
5, quick turn for avoiding pedestrians that appear in front of you.

All pretty well covered in "Ride like a Pro V"
(don't tell anyone that I use Vuze...)


-- ---

a friendly growl from the bear on the Zephyr that roars

__ __ __ _ __
/__/ / /__/ /_ /_\ /_ /
/_ /_ / /__/ /__ / \ / \ ....Kawasaki Zephyr

barry j taylor < >




~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*) . . . bjbear on his treadly

 

It's the compulsory wearing of jodphurs and chaps that worries me
about RLAP.

See what I mean? http://tinyurl.com/3hqxsk5

Quite distracting to other commuters, I'd throw up my Special K and
mess up my eyeliner if I saw some of those chaps.

 

Did you get to the part about survival instincts yet?
One such instinct is to hit the brakes. If you had done that you would have
gone down.

 

tick

" 2. overcoming survival reflexes (and why) "

 

OK, thanks for all the advice so far.

I'm ready to commit to doing either the Stay Upright Advanced 1 course
or the Superbike Level 1 course.

Alx and Cam seem to think it should be the Superbike course, although
for some weird and totally unqualified reason I seem to be leaning
towards the Stay Upright course.

Any last comments from the Brains Trust before I toss a coin and make
a booking?


=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Stay Upright Advanced 1 would be appropriate for you in confidence
building. Superbike assumes you already have confidence and just need
to go a bit faster with panache.

I'm sure you would be happy with either, and this is only my opinion.
YMMV as they say

 

Yeah it's not actually about going faster and, if one had confidence,
then overcoming survival reflexes such as backing off throttle or
hitting brakes mid-corner would not be an issue.

Only my opinion about your opinion

 

On 09/08/11 6:45 PM, GWD wrote:

Have you actually done either of these courses, GW?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

and you have, Cam? OK, can youthen tell my why you say that I should
do the Superbike course rather than the Stay Upright course? I know
youactually recommended the HART course, so maybe you could give us a
quick course comparo exlaining the various pro's and con's of the
three relevant courses?

OTOH, you could just say "nuh'.

=================

Onya bike

Gerry