Wheelie School

Hi Everyone

I've decided I want to learn to wheelie.

I'd prefer not to practice on my own bike for fear of crashing.

I guess this means going somewhere for the weekend that has school
bikes. Preference is somewhere near Scotland but I am willing to travel
for personal recommendations which is why Gowers is listed at the top of
my search.

So far a quick search has come up with

1.
Paul Gowers wheelie school
http://thewheelieschool.co.uk/

I'd probably have to fly down for that one because the 7 hours ride down
would cripple me.

2.
There is one in Glasgow which would be worth looking into, only an hour
away.
http://www.bikeriteuk.com/stunt/overview.htm

3.
There's a north west wheelie school which I could get to in 3 hours.
http://www.northwestwheelieschool.com/

Anyone have experience of these or know of someone close to Edinburgh.

 

This one can't be recommended highly enough - but then I am biased.

However, it's worth remembering that if the weather's bad then the day
will have to be postponed, which could prove to be a problem if we have
a crappy summer.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

Having done a wheelie school myself a few years ago, the one down-side I
would note is that the tool of choice is a Bandit 12.

From 1-day experience perspective this is brilliant, as the B12 is
perfect for the job. By the end of the day, despite being mentally and
physically fucked, even I was able to get the bike up on the balance
point, nicely under control. OK, only just, and it would take more
practice to perfect.

From a long-term learning experience it's less than brilliant, as the
B12 is perfect for the job. A big engine with gobs of torque makes for
easy wheelies; replicating the same approach with a smaller revvier
engine but has more than enough to loop it if you cock it up isn't so
easy.

I'd be more impressed with the wheelie schools if they used CBR600s or
GSXR750s or the like

 

IIRC Jimmy Fireblade uses Bandit 600's.

 

Molly says...

Speaking as a hamfisted twat who's not that good at wheelies, the B12 is
a damn sight easier than a B6 to control once it's lofted. Gixer thous
are even easier.

 

I agree about the thous, the ZX10R is not bad either.

 

Donald wrote;

Wise
<reminiscing>
I once upped an AJS combo, didn't 'alf spin, made I fair dizzy.
Felt better after I hit the taxi and landed....
just off Nevern square near Earls Court road it was
</rem>
wanders off

 

Sorry, but you didn't. You weren't even close. [1]

No one, in the entire history of the world, has ever got a full sized
bike to the balance point in their first month of wheelies unless it was
mid-crash. This is not a point to be argued - it's fact.

I would go so far as to say there are probably less than 30 riders in
the entire UK who can do a real balanced wheelie on a big bike (larger
than 250cc), and most of them will be in third or fourth gear,
travelling at serious three-figure speeds where the balance point is
dramatically lower.

There is no school in the UK whose bikes will allow a rider to get near
the balance point. The highest set bikes are at Paul Gower's Wheelie
School, and they're only set at 45 degrees, which is fucking high for
your first day of wheelies, but is not anywhere near the balance point.

If your forks aren't parallel to the floor at speeds below 90mph then
you ain't balanced. And to get the forks parallel requires the bike to
be almost vertical.

No. A big bike like the Bandit is easy [2] to learn to launch a wheelie
on. It is not the best bike to learn high or balanced wheelies on unless
you want to do 100mph+ ones.

The smaller the bike, the easier it is to wheelie. What you're learning
on a Bandit at one of the schools should be a technique that will be the
basis of every wheelie you do once leaving the school. The idea of the
school should be to get the pupil to the point where they're happy with
the front wheel in the air while still under complete control, and in a
position to be able to recognise and control a problem before it becomes
a crash.

A bike that's easier to launch not only means it helps the pupil to gain
more experience quicker, but it also means the bike has a slightly
easier time of it and blows up less often. Also, the Bandit, though
quite powerful, isn't massively so, but it is still a good machine to
help teach smoothness once the wheel's in the air as, although it's more
responsive than a small bike it's not vicious with it.

Once you can launch a wheelie, it's actually easier to control a high
wheelie on a smaller bike. The only reason people say big litre machines
are better at them is because they're using the high revs to keep the
wheel up because it's at a low height [3] and needs all the high revving
power it can get to stay up.

The idea of a good school, like Paul Gower's, is to take a rider to the
point of being comfortable with the wheel in the air, using a smooth
controlled technique, in a single day - a technique that will be the
foundation for your wheelies from that day onwards irrespective of
whether you continue to purely use the throttle to launch the wheel, you
clutch it up or you bounce it using the clutch and rear brake, and
irrespective of what bike you do it on.

[1] If you got the bike even close to 45 degrees in a controlled manner
on your first day of wheelies then you should be damned proud of
yourself as that's a hell of an achievement.

[2] Not that there's any such thing as an 'easy' bike to launch a
wheelie on, but there are bikes that make it easier, which isn't the
same thing at all.

[3] Relatively speaking. A 45 degree wheelie isn't 'high', but it's
still a damn fine height if the wheelie's controlled. You'll rarely see
wheelies in bike mags that are higher than 45 degrees - generally what
you're seeing is something lower than that but photographed to look
ultra-high. Having a faired bike, with the camera low so that the
fairing hides the rider, is the most popular technique mags use to make
wheelies look much higher than they are.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

I only started to get them last year when I got a CBR6 that I could
finally use the back brake with while wheelieing (not enough movement in
the ankle to get even close to the rear brake on the KTM mid-wheelie).

I can honestly say that a truly balanced wheelie is not only an amazing
feeling, but is also absolutely fucking terrifying as there's very
little room for error - at least for cack-handed twats like me.

Assuming I find some decent work, and have any time left over for
riding, I'm definitely smacking that brake light this year (without
crashing, obviously ... I hope...)

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

Hmm, hopefully not.

Apart from not being able to afford getting hurt this year, it looks
like I may be getting a job doing this:
http://www.ar-mcguire.com/ar_revolution.html
and I'm not about to **** that up if I can help it.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

I have frequent dreams/nightmares about going beyond the balance point.
It all goes into slow motion as I realise I've gone too far, and I go
for the back brake. Sometimes I get it back up from 45 degrees past the
vertical, other times it's like when you can't run for toffee in a
dream; the brake feels ineffective, and I wake up just before landing
on my back.

Either way, they're not pleasant dreams.

On the other hand, I've also dreamed I was slowly touring some unknown
alpine villages, almost exclusively on the back wheel, with my dog
running alongside. That was a great dream, until the local villagers
took my dog prisoner and tried to lynch us.

Straying a little, remember the video of the foam pit, where the guy
pushes too hard and flips his bike right over the pit and lands on the
deck? Well, I can't count the number of times I've ridden the approach
to the ramp in my dreams. Everything's there, the pit, the ramp, the
guys on the side, and the crane, and I start tonking toward the ramp,
but can never remember getting more than about halfway up it.

Cowardly subconcious!

 

Cammo says...

You need to cut down on your drug intake.

 

I know nothing about movies, or cameras but that seems pretty cool.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

I don't think that's gonna help really, is it?

What I need to do is put a subconcious trigger into my dream, so that I
can stop before the approach to the ramp. Then I can dream that I'm
smoking a fatty, while envisaging the approach, take-off, loop, and
landing, what I'm going to do to initiate each phase, how it might go
wrong and what I'll do if it does.

That ought to sort it.

 

Absolutely. What you can do with it is amazing.

The only problem I have is that the wage during training is so low it
may be simply impossible to live on...

Ooh, and I still owe you a bottle of whiskey, too.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

Just remember to grip the tank with your knees before you drop the
front wheel again
What happens if you don't Loz?
;-)
(r,d&h)

 

That makes a pleasant change ;-)

 

I got there once and completely by accident. I was with DNC and used his
B12. I cracked the throttle open and very nearly flipped it. It felt like I
was hanging on to the handlebars. It was a great relief when it went down
the right way. It wasn't a nice experience. I was half tempted to tell DNC
it was intentional but I suppose the look of shock on my face would give it
away. The 10R comes up quite quickly.

 

You're of course perfectly correct. I didn't I wasn't even close. I am
completely deluded.

If it's fact I won't even consider arguing!

Fair enough

Absolutely

<snip loads of great stuff>

Anyway, I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but nevertheless...

Most schools use a Bandit with a ****-off lump of metal bolted to the
back to stop them flipping; the technique taught is to pop the bike up
on the clutch.

The school I went to (can't recall the name as I didn't book it, but
they normally worked near Newbury but for various reasons I did mine at
Bruntingthorpe) still used a bandit but didn't use either the
ironmongery or the clutch.

What they used was a small switch connected mechanically to an
adjustable fibreglass rod and electrically to the side-stand cut-out ,
so when you hit a particular height the engine cut momentarily and the
braking effect of the rear wheel brought the front straight down.

That's why the-not-using-the-clutch bit became critical, as if you had
the clutch in, the ignition cut would make no difference.

The technique taught to get the front wheel up was to potter along at
20-25mph in first (standard gearing), knees grabbing, and then nail the
throttle to the stop in one "snap" action.

Clearly the bandit front wheel launches violently skywards, and as soon
as the rod touches the ground the ignition cuts and the wheel drops.

To allow the rider to build confidence in the device, they started with
the cut out height set at about 4 inches. After a few runs you get used
to giving it full throttle hard in first, and that it's going to come
back down again without death.

Over the day the technique to launch never changes, but the height at
which the device triggers is adjusted, and as it gets higher, they teach
you to ease off the throttle on the way up with the intention that you
stop the wheelie and bring it down under throttle control

So you get higher and higher and higher through the day and learn the
throttle control Eventually you get to a point (not the balance point
obviously, that would be silly) where it all feels a bit light, and you
can keep the same scary position, at the same speed without either going
over backwards or crashing to earth; moving the throttle back and forth
about a 1/16th of the throttle range. If you start to fall back, the
device still kicks in and brakes the rear wheel and the front falls to
earth without the rider having to hit the rear brake.

I liken it to weightlifting, there's a huge snatch to get it airborne,
with the power reducing on the way up, then a little effort to keep it
in place when up

I got to this non-balance-point stage a couple of times, but a couple of
my co-students were getting the hang of it very well.

Killing the engine will bring you back down in the way that just closing
the throttle won't

Now, I suspect that the problem with this technique is that it doesn't
transfer well to smaller bikes that don't have the grunt to get airborne
at lowish revs without clutch use, which technique wise is a big
limitation.

But anyway, as you say, I've never been anywhere near the balance point,
so what do I know.

 

Wrong. Only one school in the UK uses a metal bar on the back, and
that's Paul Gower's school. The rest use a crappy switch.

Only one school teaches wheelies with the clutch AFAIK, and that's Jimmy
Fireblade who teaches the clutch/rear brake technique.

That would've been Andy Burnett's school. Thankfully gone now as too
many people discovered what he taught was bollocks, and dangerous
bollocks at that.

Anyone teaching that you have to nail the throttle to the stop is a
****. There is no other word.

You never need more than two thirds of the available throttle - ever.

You also don't 'potter along at 20-25mph' because all that does it
create a bike that will only lift violently.

And that teaches?

Absolutely nothing at all other than to rely on a crappy switch.

Does it teach how much throttle is require to lift the front? No.

Does it teach the rider how to recognise if he's launched too hard and
is in trouble? No.

Also, the front wheel should NEVER lift violently. If it does you are
NOT in control.

Even launching from a complete standstill into a wheelie the front wheel
is not launched violently.

Which is proof that you learn nothing. Every single person has a
slightly different way to launch a wheelie. The school's job is to tell
you how to start safely and then monitor the rider's progress constantly
so that as they develop their own way of launching they aren't allowed
to also let bad/dangerous habits form at the same time.

Also the launch is NOT a wheelie - it's only how to get to the point
where the front wheel is in the air. A wheelie is when you carry that
front wheel over distance or time.

What you learn is to rely on a switch. The switch is in control. You do
not learn how to deal with problems, how to avoid them, how to recognise
there is one.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

This is one of the reasons why Burnett's no longer in business. What he
taught was fucking outrageously dangerous!

If you're moving the throttle that much while on the back wheel you are
NOT in control.

Burnett was one of the choppiest, most cack-handed twats I ever saw
claim to be able to wheelie.

Well, let's see. You can try and be sanctimonious, but as this is what I
do for a living and your only information on the subject is what you
were taught by someone who I, and many others, considered to be
criminally negligent in the complete and utter potentially fatal
bullshit he taught, I'd have to agree - you're right, you don't know.
And why should you? You went to a school where you expected to be taught
properly and safely - you weren't.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me