Valve cover bolt gasket replacement &&

Discussion in 'Motorbike Technical Discussion' started by Douglas Moffitt, Oct 15, 2004.

  1. I'm about to do the 8000 mile service on my 2000 Suzuki 750 Katana.

    The manual calls for replacing 12 gaskets under the heads of the valve
    cover bolts after adjusting the valves. Since I haven't done this
    service before, I don't know what I'm getting into.

    What material are these gaskets made from?

    Is it truly necessary to replace them, or is this just one of those
    'the factory suggests it but it's not really needed' things?

    Incidentally, is valve adjustment really needed at 8K miles?

    Can anyone suggest an inexpensive but effective tool for carb
    synchronization?

    Thanks

    D
     
    Douglas Moffitt, Oct 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Douglas Moffitt

    Mark Olson Guest

    Some high quality synthetic rubbery type material...
    The latter.

    You should get hold of some of the anaerobic gasket maker material
    that they recommend for sealing the round plugs molded into the
    cam cover gasket where the camshaft cutouts are, if you want to
    avoid leaks. Apply it only where the manual specifies- do NOT
    slobber it all over the precision O-ring style gasket.
    What the service schedule tells you to do is to inspect the valve
    clearances, not necessarily to adjust them. You have to inspect
    the clearances so that you will know whether an adjustment is
    required or not.
    A mercury manometer is both effective and inexpensive, but I do
    not recommend it, due to the negative consequences if you
    happen to spill some of the mercury. Spend a little more and
    get one of the electronic synchronizers or a Morgan Carbtune
    (I think they may do both mechanical and electronic versions
    now). Google is your friend.
     
    Mark Olson, Oct 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Douglas Moffitt

    John Johnson Guest

    I'll just note that different bikes call for different procedures. My
    VFR called for gasket sealant (HondaBond or equivalent) on the cam-cover
    gaskets. I thought that it was just to hold the gasket in place, so just
    tacked the thing down...and had to pull my cam covers when the gasket
    started drooling oil.

    If the manual calls for a procedure, think very carefully before
    deciding that it's not really necessary. That said, you can often get
    away with not replacing everything that they tell you to replace. I try
    to do it anyway, but that's my bike.
    I don't know whether Morgan does an electronic synchronizer or not, but
    I do have their Carbtune II. It's a wonderfully-made piece of kit, and
    it works well. However, the exchange rate is murder on prices these
    days. I paid about $115 for it with a carrying case (I think that I
    posted a review, if not ask for it). Compare that to $45 for a mercury
    manometer and it's hard to justify. I did so, on the basis of safety and
    convenience; I move regularly, and absolutely refuse to deal with
    mercury. The second condition rules out the mercury manometer, and the
    first means that I'll pay a premium for something compact and easy to
    use from storage.

    Basically, there are three types of carburetor synchronizers:

    liquid manometers: these devices are essentially a glass/plastic pipe
    with a liquid in them. Engine vacuum pulls the liquid up, and you match
    the height of the columns. Note that you can use almost _any_ liquid. A
    number of sites on the internet detail people's homebuilt water/ATF/etc.
    manometers. These things are cheap to build and no mercury to deal with,
    though they are rather taller than the mercury units.

    other manometers: these typically use a solid, either ball-bearings like
    the old Suzuki part, or SS rods like the CarbtuneII. They work mostly as
    above, but need some extra fiddly bits to work well. AFAIK, the only
    current manufacturer is Morgan (in the UK...did I mention the exchange
    rate?)

    dial gauges: These are available in two flavors: cheap and expensive.
    Either sort is fairly bulky, rather delicate, and (so I'm told, anyway)
    needs recalibration fairly regularly. Such calibration should be pretty
    simple, but it's there. None of the manometer units need such care. I
    opted against dial gauges because of their delicacy as much as the size
    issue. For the price (good set of gauges runs $80ish, which doesn't seem
    much when compared to the carbtune, especially since that doesn't
    include a case.

    FWIW, that's my opinion.

    --
    Later.

    'indiana' is a noun. Leave only the noun and .edu after the @ to reply

    Pismo: 2000-2004 RIP
    15" AlBook: 2004-The PowerBook is dead! Long live the PowerBook!
     
    John Johnson, Oct 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Douglas Moffitt

    Mark Olson Guest

     
    Mark Olson, Oct 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Douglas Moffitt

    John Johnson Guest

    Yup, we're preaching the same homily on that one, straight from the
    service manual bible, so to speak. lol
    No, the manual says to coat the gasket with Hondabond, not just to apply
    it to the cutouts. It wasn't drooling oil from the cutouts, either. The
    oil was drooling out of the front of the front cylinder bank and the
    rear of the rear cylinder bank. Because the VFR is a V-configuration,
    these areas are the low points on the valve-cover gaskets. I used the
    Permatex equivalent to Hondabond when I re-did the job, and it hasn't
    leaked since. It was tricky to get the cam-covers back in place without
    smearing the snot all over things, but I managed to avoid leaving any
    inside the case, and didn't get too much outside. That cleaned up fairly
    well.

    In contrast (and the experience that led me to believe that Honda only
    wanted the hondabond for 'tacking' duty was my Acura Integra, which
    called for a dab of gasket-maker (e.g. Permatex ultra gray) on the
    corners of the gasket to hold it in place while you tighten things down.
    I got that wrong, but at least it wasn't a significant issue.

    --
    Later.

    'indiana' is a noun. Leave only the noun and .edu after the @ to reply

    Pismo: 2000-2004 RIP
    15" AlBook: 2004-The PowerBook is dead! Long live the PowerBook!
     
    John Johnson, Oct 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Douglas Moffitt

    Mark Olson Guest

    Ah. This is where the V-configuration becomes significant- most of
    the time, on a typical inline engine configuration, there isn't any
    oil sitting behind the cam cover gasket. But that doesn't stop the
    ham-handed f*ckwits from liberally smearing all sorts of gasket goo
    on those nice precision gaskets that don't need any...

    In my experience, most of the time, the cam cover gasket itself is
    just fine before they apply the goo, the leaks come about because the
    rubber sealing washers under the cam cover shoulder bolts have shrunk,
    so the cover won't seal against the gasket as tightly as it should.

    Replace the deteriorated sealing washers[1], and that $35 gasket
    will be as good as new, instead it's ruined by someone who doesn't
    understand how the system is supposed to work.

    I'm trying to remember whether the front cam cover gasket on my SV650S
    needs to be coated or not, the rear cylinder is basically vertical
    so no oil pooling issues there. I'll get a chance to practice what
    I preach soon, it's got over 31k miles on it and needs the 2nd valve
    clearance check[2] soon.

    [1] Which are also invariably coated with goo rather than replaced.

    [2] and perhaps a subsequent valve clearance adjustment, but I'm
    hoping none is required, just like it turned out at the first
    valve clearance check at 15k miles.
     
    Mark Olson, Oct 15, 2004
    #6
  7. Mark and John,

    Thanks a lot.

    I'll get right on it.

    D
     
    Douglas Moffitt, Oct 15, 2004
    #7
  8. Douglas Moffitt

    John Johnson Guest

    Yeah, and often the wrong gasket goop is used. In my case, the manual
    calls for an adhesive, not a 'liquid gasket' compound/maker. Putting a
    liquid gasket maker onto your gasket is just asking for trouble, as you
    say, becaue it gets squeezed out and goes places where you don't want it
    to be. The adhesive isn't quite so prone to that sort of thing. As
    always, use the right tool for the job.
    Yup. I think I'll probably see about replacing all of my valve-cover
    gaskets (8 bolt gaskets, 2 cover gaskets) at the 32k maintenance, if
    they look like they've deteriorated noticably. In any case, I'm not
    going in there before then unless a problem occurs, since I've got 16k
    valve check intervals. Of course, should I ever need to adjust my
    valves, getting the shims out will be a bit of work.

    --
    Later.

    'indiana' is a noun. Leave only the noun and .edu after the @ to reply

    Pismo: 2000-2004 RIP
    15" AlBook: 2004-The PowerBook is dead! Long live the PowerBook!
     
    John Johnson, Oct 15, 2004
    #8
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