[QUOTE] You see, this is where you come a bit of a cropper with some people. You ask a question, somebody answers it - then you ask another question on the same subject: a second question that has an answer not very far away from the first one.[/QUOTE] But, if you site sig seps as an example, isn't necessarily a one line yes / no answer (especially to someone who has never even been close to such). I need the bigger picture to se why and the detail to see how (and would rather do nothing than RTFM). I described a drive chain symptom to TOG and said "does this mean I need a new chain" and he said yes, so I'm going to put on a new chain, end of. He couldn't have known for sure what the exact reason for the symptom was but the fact it existed mean his answer could be fairly specific.[QUOTE] I appreciate that you din't ask a question in this particular case, I offered some info - but it's the principle man, the principle![/QUOTE] Indeed, and that gives the bigger picture bit. Interest / experimentation would normally do the rest, but in this case I'm not interested enough to do anything other than not type a sig here (the only place it seems to matter). (And don't take that the wrong way, I'm grateful for your time and effort and I did find it interesting). [QUOTE] Oh, and that's a point: it isn't /the/ usenet, it's just usenet. Stick "the" in there and you start sounding like Sir.Tony, the dweeb from Dweebville.[/QUOTE] To whom (apart from you of course. Again in I don't know how many years of potentially using the 'the' but you are the first person to have mentioned it)? [QUOTE] There you go, then.[/QUOTE] Sorry (and I'm not trying to argue here) that sounds like I've just found out about OT postings? I have been posting and reading OT stuff for years. (just so we understand each other). [QUOTE] That's the thing with a public forum - anybody can read what anybody writes. Public domain, innit - that's what was so laughable about that numbnut FCS and his 'copyright' notice on the end of every post. ;-) Not only that, but there's a shitload more readers than there are writers - they reckon 10 lurkers to every poster: I mean, I usually read ~500 posts a day, and reply to ~5, so in that example they're an order of magnitude out. Who knows how many (or few, I s'pose) lurkers there really are out there - swaddled in their big black cloaks, floppy hat brim pulled down over their reddened eyes, their only source of illumination and entertainment the flickering bluish glimmer of an elderly CRT ...[/QUOTE] You written any books Pip?[QUOTE] What I'm trying to get at is this: every time one punter asks a question, there's a sigh of relief from 37.8 lurkers on average, who all wanted to know the answer to that one, but were too scared to ask.[/QUOTE] I know and because I'm 1) thick skinned and 2) interested and 3) DGAF what other some other people might think I'll often be that one. [QUOTE] In the context of a /really/ stupid question, the ratio will be three times that. ;-) Moreover, there's no such thing as a private conversation on usenet, any bastard can stick their oar in at any time and they often do.[/QUOTE] I know Pip (out of interest, do you *really* think I thought otherwise)? If so it's no wonder you and others may miss-read me as much as you seem to (and I know that is the case because only I know what I'm thinking when I try to put it into words). [QUOTE] There's no ownership of threads and no guarantee or possibility of penalty for topic drift in an unmoderated forum like this one. Fact. uk.r.m. has long been known and revered for its ability to go off-topic - often by parsecs in a matter of seconds.[/QUOTE] Yep, and bless it for doing so (and yes I know a parsec is a measure of distance) ;-) [QUOTE] That's where the fun is and the ability to sort wheat from chaff in a pseudo-technical thread a vital one.[/QUOTE] Yeah, indeed, although I probably do that subconsciously and add a pinch of salt. ;-)[QUOTE] Once you've got a proper feel for the place and the posters, you can expand a thread (especially an 'interesting' one (that's one that's grown by 150 posts since you last made a coffee)) and spot the names of the regular offenders ... then cut straight down there because you just /know/ there's a pisstake session going on. ;-) Alternatively, you look down the tree and see Pip alternating with a noob's name and know to avoid it (like all the regulars are ignoring this one by now) because Pip's just doing Pip's thing again.[/QUOTE] And bless him for it! The thing is those sorts of details (the tree shape) sort of allude me Pip. I'm not *that* interested in any of this to play it like a game of chess (over exaggeration I know but). I have just picked up a bike unfamiliar to me, I'd like to share info about it and once done I'll probably go back to popping in and out as the mood takes me.[QUOTE] Heh. No, there is one - well, there was. The uk.r.m. FAQ is a thing of great wonder and a singular source of information on subjects divers and many ... but due to a bit of a bollock being dropped (well, a couple of them actually) it is currently in cyberspace limbo awaiting a domain to be secured. Ah. Once somebody sorts it out, the mighty FAQ will once again return, like a concours-restored Fizzy and about as pointless.[/QUOTE] LOL! (I thought Fizzys fetched decent cash now though, so there's 1 point to them) ;-)[QUOTE] The longer you stay around, the more you'll learn, as we all have and do on a daily basis. The best thing is when somebody pops up from nowhere and starts spouting off becasue they think they're the greatest living authority on some bastard obscure shitty subject that no normal human being would ever be interested in - then a lurker from Outer Baluchistan pops out of the woodwork and shoots them down in flames .. then Simian comes along and shows them both that they've fudged the sums in their initial premise in any case.[/QUOTE] Ok ..[QUOTE] We've done the "OT" wars from time to time. It has never, IIRC, been advocated as a capital crime. Bear, for example, ahs publicly given up OTing as so many other people haven't bothered to stick it in. I don't see the harm in OTing, but I don't personally object if it is omitted -[/QUOTE] <mutter> ... shame you don't feel that way about sig seps ... [QUOTE] Omission of the OT prefix is (or was) an issue for some, as they filter the OT threads out at source, as they don't want to read them. Their loss, I reckon - but that's just my personal take on it, and I'm biased as most of the shit I post is OT and overlong to boot. Likewise. 1. Because that's the way it works.[/QUOTE] More so in here than any other ng I feel. [QUOTE] 2. My response to that point was less than serious. Sorry. 3. One of the most frequently-quoted axioms (axia?) here is "Motorcycling is a broad church" (it has to be to get the fat old Wings in) and your viewpoint and Alex's on the use for a motorcycle are diametrically opposed in at least five dimensions.[/QUOTE] But I don't call him names because of it, I was dragged up different? Had we had any previous conversations or he included a smiley to indicate he was just 'avin a laugh' it might have been different (and I've been called worse for less and still shared a pint).[QUOTE] See (2) above.[/QUOTE] Ah, k. It's reasons like that as to why I put as many smiley's in as I do. It's very difficult (well for me anyway) to convey the right spirit of what I'm saying in text, so I make sure people see I'm being lighthearted (and that's me most times). So they don't get the wrong end of the stick and start getting all shouty etc?[QUOTE] The most pointed point in the as yet unrevived FAQ was "lurk before you post". Only by reading (lots, for quite a while) can a new-to-the-group type gain any appreciation of posting conventions (and uk.r.m. is one of the last bastions of 'doing it properly, in proper English, TYVM you cunt') posters' styles and the relationships between the regular posters.[/QUOTE] That may work well for many but I'm a very_right_here_right_now sorta bloke and even if someone has sounded off at me and been a right cunt, I'll still generally give them a second (or more) chance, once they (maybe) realise I'm not what they first thought I was? At the same time I can totally ignore anyone if I choose (I don't use killfiles).[QUOTE] As TOG pointed out, there's a lot of people here who've met through uk.r.m. and have gone on to become RL friends, drinking buddies, holiday mates, lovers and even spouses.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there are. [QUOTE] This is an aspect that no newbie realises or appreciates.[/QUOTE] Probably .. [QUOTE] Also, in many cases, the NG is only the tip of the iceberg, the visible communication.[/QUOTE] And in others it's the only. Going back to the point about the BM club. Apart from discount spares and the tool loan service, the vast majority (it seems) are happy to pay their subs and just read 'The Journal' (the very well produced monthly mag). In all my years membership I've never gone to a 'natter night', been on one ride out (and that was whilst at a camping weekend) or written in to the mag. Nor have I ever gone to an AGM and if I had to to retain my membership I'd leave. I'm not *interested* in the marque or club, they get my subs and can spend them how they like, as long as I get my monthly read and other 'perks'. Selfish, possibly but the way it is none the less (oh, I am still a mod on the BM Yahoo group, now they have a web based forum, which I don't use because ICBA). [QUOTE] Fuck me, there's schizos a'plenty round here. You might wonder why you've just bought a round for the three ukrmers you're in a pub with and there's seven pints required. That's when the penny drops.[/QUOTE] Hehe. Maybe that's another reason for all the up_and_down's here. Me, I just plod along being the same old me, 24/7 ...[QUOTE] "There is no clique". Actually, there isn't. Not in a ruling junta regard, anyway - no matter what the resident trolls might tell you[/QUOTE] Hmm .. [QUOTE] (that's just because they're bitter and their botties smart from the spnakkings). There may be movements by consensus, but taht's the way of any group, especially when many of the regulars know each other.[/QUOTE] Ah ..[QUOTE] We've had a lot of people through here, who start off with really poor English skills, who get better and better as they go on. Monkey see, monkey do.[/QUOTE] Well, maybe for some (and I'm talking punctuation / spelling here). I'm 52 and I still consistently get the same things wrong. I can't even remember the little clues I give myself to help me remember. If it wasn't for the spell checker on here 99 percent of this would be unintelligible (rather than the 90% it is now). [QUOTE] My usual response to the recidivists is that they chose to communicate in a text-based method, so they can choose to be clear or be ignored.[/QUOTE] Agreed. But we can make an effort to understand someone if they look like it's difficult for them or maybe English isn't their native tongue? [QUOTE] Once they don't get any replies at all to their drivel for a couple of weeks they get bored and piss off. Yep. When in need of a BoL, I ask the local library to source one for me. Cheaper, see? when you /need/ one, they're always full price.[/QUOTE] To me, new, a Tenner. Do we still have libraries? [QUOTE] Once you have one (and paid top dollar) then they pop up on eBay for 50p.[/QUOTE] Of course! [QUOTE] Loz also holds a small (scrounged, begged, donated) library of them, but I guess he hasn't a suitable one for you or he'd have offered.[/QUOTE] <checks shelf> I have about 15 atm (had a clear out recently), Lozzo's not talking to be now so we'll never know.