TTXGP anyone?

http://creationontheweb.com/images/fp_articles/2005/1218doonesbury_lg.gif

And while we're on the subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3117644

 

That rumour seems quite likely to turn into reality, as does a new 8
race qualification to race in the TT. How will this affect the X?

 

Anyone riding in the TTXGP will have to be a fully licensed rider, inc
the Mountain Course licence. Officially, I'm fucked on that score,
but the licencing authorities are said to use their discretion on
occasion.

 

Late to this thread, but just want to ask if the bike will have the
motor(s) built into the wheels.
If so, will it be tested on surfaces similar to the congealed porridge
found on parts of the TT course, as unsprung weight might be a bit of
an issue.

 

Not quite.

First you have to get your novice licence. This involves some forms
and 1/2 a day at 'race school'

Then you need to finish at least one race at ten different meetings,
across at a least 3 different circuits. This will promote you from
'novice' to 'clubman'.

Then you need to do ten more meetings, this time finishing in the top
50% of the field. These need to be spread across 4 different
circuits. This will promote you from 'clubman' to 'national'.

Then, to race on the TT Mountain Course, you need a 'Mountain
Licence'. This requires a proper medical (the one for a bog standard
licence is self-cert), and you currently need to have done six
meetings in the previous 12 months. I suspect that what Mike
mentioned is changing this 6 race rule to 8.

 

I doubt anyone would be that stupid. ;-) The commercial entry
already presented appears to be chain driven. I think for reasons of mass
centralisation and, as you say, unsprung mass, you'd want to put two 11 kg
motors and a 75 kg battery pack somewhere near where a traditional motor
and gearbox sits.

http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=37

I'm a bit more interested in how much regenerative braking they'll
use. They can't use the full braking power on the back wheel, but
anything to regenerate from the front would need to sit in the hub (unless
it uses hydraulic coupling) and that's your unsprung mass screwed up again.

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Dr Ivan D. Reid

Could you not use something driven from the wheel rim that only engages
under braking? I'm thinking of a pair of wheels that clamp on to the rim
(push-bike brake stylee) and drive the generator.

 

I see from the Morini Mailing list someone is building a one for the
'home brew' class based on a Gilera CX (125) chassis. Very streamlined
and light (without the motor(s) anyway).

<glances at 'spare' GFR in shed>

Team UKRM anyone?


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Nicked from the Morini list:

"Most teams seem to be basing their designs around Lithium Iron
Phosphate battery chemistry (which is supposed to be intrinsically safe)
whilst I and my Sponsors (who are also entering a bike) are designing
around Lithium Colbalt. The energy density of the Colbalt cell is nearly
double the Phosphate, but even so my 10Kw/hr pack is going to be approx
70Kg. The 675 based bike with Phosphate is likely to be nudging the
upper weight limit of 300Kg, whilst I'm looking to stay under 200Kg.
Some of the speeds being talked about just don't make sense. With a
10Kw/hr pack, you're peak power can't be over about 20Kw and the average
more like 15Kw or you simply won't get round! Small light and
aerodynamic it has to be.
Royce Creasey was heading up a Feet Forward hub centre steer machine,
but his backers never came up with the promised money. The 1957 FIM
streamlining rules have been overturned for this event, but not to the
extent of 'full' enclosure, otherwise the electric EcoMobile would by my
bet for a win (In the Pro class, it would be too expensive for the
Open).



--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

It would still be unsprung, unless there was a lot of compliance in the
coupling.

 

The thing about regenerative braking is that it doesn't have static
friction, so it might not be as bad as a friction brake, so the wheel
probably won't lock. On some cars cars that use regenerative braking,
AIUI it simply engages in a similar manner to engine braking whenever
the throttle is lifted.

Yebbut it would somehow have to cope with vertical wheel movement if
it weren't bolted to the unsprung mass. Also clutching it in would be
interesting.

I suppose one could run a chain drive up a telelever-type system but
by the time one added a UJ coupling for the steering it might weigh as
much as a hydraulic system or even a hub alternator.

I thought about a low-pressure pneumatic system, which would be light,
but I suspect that it would be horribly ineffecient and difficult to
control linearly.

 

Of course, with an FF or scooter, you'd have more weight on the back
wheel and so can feed more of the braking effort through it. Use a
centre hub front end or other FFE to keep the bike more level under
braking and you can use more rear braking again. Lower the CoG and it
also increases the grip balance front to rear.

I suspect that even with a racing bike on the island, there maybe some
benefit to having a motor-brake in the front wheel. If you built it
inside the hub then it wouldn't affect the gyroscopic forces too much
and you'd be left with an increase in unsprung weight. If you used it
for some of the braking power, the disks could be smaller. So how about
you build a wheel around a small Lynch pancake motor with say 20hp or
so.

It's all a compromise, innit. Just perhaps, the regs for the TTXGP and
the different things pushing the design mean that there's a very
different local maxima in the design compromise envelope than the
traditional head first, front end bias, short wheelbase of current
racing bikes.

I want to see an Electric NSU Hammock. Maybe next year.

 

Oh yes they are. Or were, and I can't see why anything should have changed.
You use to get these idiots showing up, often on Tomorrow's World, and
they'd invented, say, a new carburettor that improved economy and
performance. Would they fit it to a Ford Escort and bring along a standard
one for comparison? No, they's fit it to the Plastic Car Of The Future,
with Perspex and Gullwing Doors and Run-Flat Tyres (on wire-spoked wheels)
and Rear-View TV, as if they'd been watching too much Gerry Anderson. So
they spend a huge amount of time and effort dicking around reinventing the
concept car, and the original idea sinks without trace.

While the sensible approach would be to take a decent ZX-9R chassis and
equip it with the best electric power plant they can build, what we'll see
is all kinds of technology demonstrators for the special obsessions of the
builders - hub-centre steering, fuel cells, recumbents, 2WD, flappy-paddle
tyres, the lot. Personally, I'm hoping for one where the rider sits
back-to-front and steers by television.

 

Rear wheel steering. Yogic flying.

 

What about a BMW R--GS style telelever suspension? That wouldn't
require so much compliance. And working against the rim would give
higher rotation speed on the regenerator, potentially making a unit of
lower mass viable via DC-DC conversion with smaller coils.

Or am I wibbling?

 

Use a dozen traditional Miller dynamos.

 

Exactly so, at least for some entrants. Some of the others will just
bung a known-good motor and battery combo into a lightweight frame and
just get on with it.

An idea occurs - is there any restriction on trailer use? A few extra
miles of energy there. If and when I build a leccy bike, I'll be using a
battery trailer for range extension.

 

Use a boneless chicken breast, stuffed with garlic butter, breaded and
fried - a Dynamo Kiev.

 

Their are loads of riders looking for rides.
Once a team is registered to enter, they are supplied lists of riders
who would be willing to run the bike. Contact the TTXGP organisers for
more info.