There's a surprise...

Mark N points to:

I'll one up you - what a suprise!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jun/080626bombshell.htm


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Mark N says:

Possible and given the lateness of the whole thing, could end
up a new card in their hand for negotiating even if they are serious.

If they have tracks and the factories (teams/riders/money) they'll get
TV about as much as they do today. I can only think of three tracks
that are appropriate or close and not France affiliated
Brainerd
Indy
Cleveland (CART track at the airport)

Are there others?


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

This not only looks a dollar short, but a day late and if anyone thinks
for a fraction of a second France/DMG won't play hardball if the need
should arise, then I've got some waterfront property down here they may
want to look at. Oh, and by the way, hardball might, among other
things, mean manipulating certain OEM's in other series like MX, CC,
not to mention the influence DMG most likely has with SX. So, to me it
looks like more posturing, but at the stage of the game I really don't
see what for, I mean we're what? Half-way through this season and 6
months from '09? So, it looks a little late in the game to start
looking for someone (foolish enough) to take the biggest (and baddest)
of all racing promoter's to task, don't you think? I dunno for sure,
but given the very long memory that outfit is known to have, I'm
thinkin' taking them on just to come up short might not be a "positive"
career move, that said, there is a guy out west named Smith who just
might have the juice to try, but ISTR he and France smoked the peace
pipe a while back and it's unclear if he's of the mind to try them
again, as well as over "just motorcycles." Anyway, it goes without
saying it will take somebody with some very real $'s, as well as
influence with not only TV, but track owner's too, and I just don't see
it, then again, this whole deal has gotten kinda' crazy lately, so
we'll see...

 

Mark N says:

There's a fourth.

You don't remember Edmondson getting shut out Mid-O and
others - a part of the reason NASbike never flew except as
glorified club racing. I guarantee he remembers how it worked.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Yeah, I guess it might especially since it's a family dynasty that has
been known to hold a grudge, (or five) but like them or not, they are a
major force to deal with when it comes to racing a lot of things with
engines in this country...

 

Except that he's doing it again with "glorified cub racing", by all
evidence. And if you're talking about 1995, what really was the
deciding factor was that the factories backed the AMA, and by
definition the factories will run in the factory series. Regarding
Edmondson's business acumen, I'm just not impressed so far.

Regarding the tracks, you don't think any of them would run the
factory series? Here's what Abrams said regarding the connections at
CN today:

"Most of the tracks have ties to either NASCAR, the International
Speedway Corporation, or Grand-AM. DMG is partly owned by Jim France,
the vice chairman/executive vice president of NASCAR and chairman/CEO
of International Speedway Corporation (ISC). In addition to Daytona
International Speedway, ISC owns Auto Club Raceway. And NASCAR runs a
round of the Sprint Cup Series at Infineon Raceway. Those three tracks
wouldn't be missed. Daytona is the most dangerous track on the
calendar followed by Fontana. Infineon, though millions have been
spent on safety, continues to have serious safety issues.

"Grand-Am also races at Infineon, as well as the Mid-Ohio Sports Car
Course, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Virginia International Raceway,
Barber Motorsports Park, and Miller Motorsports Park. The SunTrust
Moto-ST series runs at VIR, Barber, and Road America. Whether these
tracks would be forced to choose between the two competing
championships could go a long way to determining the makeup of their
schedules, and the viability of the series'. Though not as disgruntled
as the OEM's, track principals have previously said they've been left
out of the loop on the DMG takeover. At least one current track had a
significant increase in its sanctioning fee."

The owner of Road America was making some dissatisfied comments during
that race weekend as well. I seriously have my doubts that Grand Am
has the horsepower to lock out bike racing everywhere, and they're the
main player here. For NASBike what appears would be best case would be
Yamaha and Ducati (CN reports Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki were active
participants in the MIC thing, Yamaha AWOL) and the rest of the riff-
raff, and those two are far from certain. If their show is missing all
the factory teams and factory riders, is that something that all these
tracks would want to run? Would Laguna and Miller want that as the
supporting show for their world events, which are their biggest events
and involve a serious investment? I also read somewhere that all of
the AMA events have an OEM as a title sponsor, and that's a lot of
money to pass on, especially if attendance is expected to be down.
Without the factories and their riders it certainly would be.

Seems like it would take some very serious muscle in order to avoid a
lot of leakage on the tracks. That NASBike has started out the way it
has makes me question how serious these guys are about trying to turn
this into a valuable property, it just doesn't seem like they're even
trying. Which makes me wonder how committed France is and if he'd
expend real capital trying to win a war. Maybe he just wants what he
was starting with Moto-ST, a little series to run at Daytona and other
tracks that he could control and perhaps build over time. If we knew
how much they paid for the AMA series, we'd have a better idea of what
their intentions are, I think.

 

Here's something on Soup today: "Some insiders suggest that this will
be the last joint AMA/MotoGP round at Laguna and that the 250s and 125
will be on board in 2009--if the DMG takeover happens." If true, that
suggests they aren't intimidated by DMG. As for their September race,
my guess is if they don't kill that after this year DMG probably will
- the "finale" closer to home, you know. Which kinda leaves SCRAMP
with little to lose...

 

Mark N says:

I was there and it most certainly was the tracks that
everybody involved was citing as the problem. The factories,
then as now, were not on Edmondson's list - he didn't care if
they came or not except as contingency sponsors which
they were (and still are) anyway. Sort of the same as now
but Rog is on the other side of the negotiating table.

You haven't seen his motor home and everybody remembers his
ex's new tits. He's done OK for himself so I guess it depends
on what you consider the definition of good business acumen.
The current deal, we might know soon but I'm not taking
bets either way yet.

Road America guy - Bruggumsomething - sounds like he'd consider
it too. Laguna maybe too. So we're up to six tracks if the MIC
gets them all, maybe enough. Then other non-DMG tracks
could defect if they see it's going to work but I wouldn't bet on it.

The Road America guy actually said something that made the
most sense so far - just put it off a year. Give everybody time
to come up with something all can live with. I don't think Rog will
go for that but it would take some pressure off everybody.

Will be an interesting few months coming up.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Champ says:

Close enough, he controls the muscle in motor racing here.
Nascar has given him control of many of the big time tracks
and a big wad of money. He learned from his daddy, Nascar
founder, which toes to step on to make sure he gets what
he wants/needs.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Track access is one thing and a huge one at that, but I would think
infrastructure might be the one big hurdle any savvy challenger would
be looking at as well.
1st. you'd need a rule-book fairly quick, secondly, a few folks to
enforce it, then all the people like corner workers and such that can
actually make or break any event. Now, finding folks that know what
they're doing is hard enough, but finding those willing to be
black-listed from all AMA events, not to mention, Grand Am and Nascar
would be pretty tuff, don't you think? (hardball and looooong reach)
But like I said month's ago, it's all posturing until you see something
in print, though I do wonder about the motivation's behind this deal,
'Zuki and Honda are in for sure, Kaw? I'm not so sure. Yam isn't and I
don't see Duc backing it either, H-D and BMW are stakeholder's in ST
and look to be in good shape DSB wise, so they're not in. I just wonder
given that Honda would more than likely be very competitive with their
current FX bike in DSB, if maybe they're not running a game on.....
(odd man out? Hmm..)
Time will tell...

 

T3 notes:

Copy the current one. Seems easy. Make the previously
agreed changes maybe even, they are in writing, use a
copier.

Corner workers are usually track guys or some club. They'll work
whatever happens at the track. Tech, pit, stuff like that, I know a
few and if the manufacturers are going, they're going. So while
it might be an issue, I don't think it's a major issue.

I've been wrong. Once. It hurt.

Indeed.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

I'm one of those cornerworker types, 20 notches on the belt as of this
year. Almost all of the cornerworkers I've talked with or read posts
from (from across the states) have stated that they don't like what DMG
has in mind. 2 main things, we don't like the Daytona Stuper Bike idea
and the past safety incidents and recent comments about track safety.
For Roger to state that there is no rider safety committee as far as
he's concerned, says everything.

I agree with Mike, for most places, cornerworkers wouldn't be a problem.
I'm not sure about Sears Poi . . . Infineon but wouldn't be surprised if
Bruton chose the MIC folks as that will probably be the series drawing
the most fans, IMO. Bruton has invested heavily into making it safer for
the bikes there.

BTW Mark, I'd like to hear what you consider serious safety issues at
Infineon for the bikes.

--
Mick aka MotoMania
motomick at sbcgobal dot net

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in a pretty and well preserved body -- but rather to skid in
broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
-- WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!" - Author : Unknown

 

Heheh, yeah, with only inline 4's in the series their rule book would
be little thin, no need for many rules..

Tell you what, if you think it's so easy and all the folks needed are
there ready just to jump in and help why in the hell don't *YOU* start
a series, who needs MIC? I mean, why not? You say a rule book is
nothing, tech guy's a dime a dozen and that there are plenty/enough
tracks willing to piss off France, and of course all the fans are in
your pocket too, so why not? You could call it BSGB (Buttbaum's Sour
Grapes Bike) yeah, that's the ticket, sounds like a winnah 2 me, go for
it dood..

Sorry Buttbaum, but I haven't moved far at all from what I said months,
if not years ago, though if you feel the need to go back and check, by
all means knock yourself out, just try payin' attention this time, you
might actually learn something. This MIC crap looks just like that,
crap and from what I can tell they didn't even consult their (supposed
over 300) membership before issuing a press release saying they were
"thinking" about seeking offers. Tell me something, is that like
thinking about taking a dump? Heheh, looks like someone might need to,
as they're apparently full of **it..

Maybe Kaw is now I really don't know, as I've been away for a while and
haven't heard much lately one way or the other, but I'd prolly bet real
money Yam is not and will not be a part of any "outlaw" racing..

Tide? I'd imagine it would take a tsunami..

I'm fairly sure KTM already races in ST, so I'd imagine they'll at
least try DSB next year, but you do bring up a point while
passing/glossing over it. If, say 2, or 3 Jap OEM's do leave and
attempt some sort of outlaw (west coast inline 4) racing series and
everybody, or most everybody else is in AMA, how would that look? I
dunno, but I'm thinkin' not so good. No, they'll prolly either race in
AMA, or they won't, countering AMA with their own deal would more than
likely have "repercussions" beyond the showroom floor and isn't this
all about sales? Oh wait, I forgot, you're convinced the Nip's do this
stuff for fun..

'Zuki made and continue to make themselves out the heavy, not me, I
only point it out and if you don't think there's not the real
possibility for boatload of double dealin' on this deal you're over the
top naive..

Heh, I wished I could take credit for even a little part of this for no
other reason than just because I know how much it screws with your
head, but alas, I can not. Anyway, (as one might imagine;-) I've
enjoyed watching you squirm of late, but TBH my attention span gets a
little short in the summer and I'm kinda' over it, but carry one if you
wish...

 

I don't get that sense. From reading the various magazines to talking
to people that race, that spectate at races, that ride bikes, that
watch racing on SpeedTV, to listening to commentators, the overall
sense I get is that people are curious, they're concerned, they're
interested, and they are willing to wait and see if DMG can do better
than the horrible job that the AMA did on their own.

This is the only forum, and there are abut 5-10 extremely vocal
persons that comprise it, where terms such as "Moto-ShiT" and
"NASbike" seem to crop up in disdain and disgust on a regular basis.

I think you may being hearing more echoes than you realize.

 

And had it really mattered to you as a Ukian, or Euro (whatever) I'd
imagine you would've paid close attention. Which is to say what I feel
this whole deal in reality breaks down to, just another (f'd up?;-)
'Merkan thing. Apparently DMG is going to change, not only what we race
here stateside, but how we race too. From what I can tell they see
American Motorcycle Racing as a national series unto itself, not an
exclusive fancied-up and expen$ive street bike deal that's a WSB, or
MGP stepping stone and when you stop and *really* think about it
without a bunch of outside noise, (from certain OEM's) it's hard to
find fault with that premise, but like I said when this all started,
the devil is in the details. Until there's a rule book we won't really
know what their plans are, that said, I'd expect one pretty quick,
especially so if the lines are drawn as it looks right now. With that
in mind, know this deal has changed colors a couple times already, so
prolly only God (and Jimbo France) knows what it'll end up looking like
by the time they actually print the book.....

Really? Hmm, I hadn't noticed..
BTW, he musta' forgot red-necks and racists...

TBH at first glance I felt that way too and while I'm certainly not
down with everything that's been said, or claimed in the media,
OVERALL, I do see their point....(note, I SEE their point, not
necessarily agree with it, at least not yet....)

 

The only way I can figure that it makes sense is that the promoters
think that either:

1.) more people will watch it
2.) more people in the high paying advertiser's favored demographics
will watch it
3.) more advertising revenues will accrue to the promoters
4.) more teams will be able to afford to enter and field teams
5.) Buyers of 1,000cc hypersportbikes used to own 600cc
hypersportbikes and will still want to watch them
6.) More buyers of 600cc hypersportbikes will start watching than
buyers of 1,000cc hypersportbikes will stop watching
7.) More people who buy 600cc hypersportbikes buy aftermarket parts
for them than perople who buy 1,000cc hypersportbikes
8.) More 600cc hypersportbikes are sold in the U.S. than are 1,000cc
hypersportbikes

I mean, a person doesn't have to like any of those reasons, or even
think that any of them are valid, for there to *exist* reasons to try
such a change. The actual reasons may be entirely different.

What people will watch and why, what advertisers will pay for, and
why, generally has very little to do with what a few hardcore
outsiders who love to gossip about the inner workings of racing think
is "right" or "wrong."

Obviously, if running a successful and profitable racing series were
easy, the AMA would have had a much better product and much happier
customers than they did prior to the sale of their rights to DMG.

DMG and Roger Edmondson, like them or not, both *do* have a history
of running successful and profitable racing series, whether they are
attractive to their critics in this newsgroup, or not.

That's why most of the people I talk to and (among others) this
month's Sport Rider long background article, are taking a "wait and
see" attitude to see what happens before they condemn the changes as
abject failures before a single race is scheduled, or to term the
transition as a failure before the old organization has even finished
the current racing season.

It all seems premature and quite myopic and biased to me.

 

Whoa, I didn't say it made sense to me, (I think) I said I understand
their premise, big difference, but you're pretty close anyway, and like
Julian says, it's different over here..
Check this out, I read something the other day about the 20 biggest
events held in this country, Nascar had something like 17 of them, go
figure..

Umm, if you'd checked lately I think you'll find a bunch of Euro/world
class driver's trying to get in to Nascar, not so much anyone wanting
out, but that's their deal and I'm really not up on it.
Suffice to say, things gonna' change, though just how much remains to
be seen...

 

Champ proclaims:

http://www.ironharley.com/racepics/xr750thbig.jpg

OK, it's only an american race bike. But I just
helped a guy find one to ship to Finland, along
with a trainer (Morehead) to maybe start a series there.
Probably no money so it'll never work.

Both points very true. Hell, maybe someday the MotoGP guys will
be looking for Daytona MiniBike rides like the F1 guys are looking
for Nascar rides now.

 

All of the above misses the point. The premier class of racing is
about what makes the most money for the promoters. Duh. What you
want to see is entirely beside the point.

Do grow up.

If your opinion were directly convertable to cash, then YOU would have
a point.

In the real world, it simply comes across as petulant whining.

Now, if the manufacturers produce what you claim they want AND more
people are willing to watch it, then the balance will tip. Simple as
that.

 

Premature? Time marches on and it's now July. The first grid is in 2009.