Texas troopers lying about motorcycle speeds?

Yep. I admit. I don't ride much and seldom get outside my local
jurisdiction.

 

From what I can tell, I've covered at least as much ground as you have, but
for some reason I haven't met as many cops.

ab

 

No point in being sarcastic Bill... you are much brighter than that. Such a
response from a person of your caliber saddens me. Perhaps we can begin
again and address some of the issues, such as how to handle the demographic
/ economics issues between the US and China in a world market.... and the
now established societal issues in the population at large...such as badly
educated last geneartion, that will not of course be reversed nationally by
that same body electing representatives with whom they agree.... it would be
like hookers voting on pimps, The ball game is not going to change given
the established and agreed on situation.

There are natural forces at work. If you can see how that these might be
employed to achieve change, now that would be both interesting and helpful.

And maybe we could discuss any historical precidents for this range of
views, pro or conn...and there *are historical precidents for either view,
its just that some of these have not been scalable ... the rise of ancient
Athens for instance.


I have found over the years Texans to be quite rescourceful... impressively
rescourceful across a broad range. It would be good to this directed to a
constucctive conversation of the broad range of issues that face the nation.

I feel there *are constructive solutions, just that the natural, especially
established cycles cannot be reversed mid stream, sort of like a breaker
coming ashore.... its going to arrive....fighting it is counter
productive....surfing on it isn't.


Phil Scott

 

Yes, not from Brownse, but in my own speeding ticket case a couple of years
ago, posted to the NG along with my letter to the court. It consisted of
many of Brownses points, some deliberate, some, after reading Brownse, by
accident...but the strategy worked and I believe the larger viewpoint and
legal issues are fully accurate.

Phil Scott

 

I have found that to be repeatedly true as well...but there is also the
abuse aspect existing side by side, on the force and in the courts...the
more you know about the courts the more you can see those with inside
information abusing them against the best interests of the citizens.

No one said it was a *pure revenue tool... of course speed enforcement is to
a very large degree a safety issue... but getting a ticket for 35 in a
posted 25 and being lied to by the officer that the 25 in this case was
absolute then citing a non existent study and ignoring the basic speed law,
on a clear day, with no other car in sight...and calling that unsafe
speed................ in Sausalito? Its a speed trap thang. and that
has been historically quite common.

And its *that specifically that is complained about. When that becomes as
prevelant as it is, and insurance rates are un up on that bogus basis, then
the same man may find it just to opose even a more legitimate ticket, just
as one would boot a shop lifter out of his store on days he was not actually
stealing.

Correct...and no one has implied otherwise. except you...who tried to imply
that ticketing was a 'pure revenue tool'..

No one argues with that...but in the US its been a speed trap thing, not
seen for instance in many other nations such as on German autobons(sp).

of course... much speeding is totally unsafe.
But those same speed laws can be and it appears or routinely hair split in
order to raise revenue.

That is correct of course... and that too is seen as both viable and not
viable depending on which fuddy duddy is getting all huffy over
nothing....and the situation of how the fine fits the crime, and court
tactics such as setting court appearances deliberately at 7 am in Concord
Calif for instance in my cases....court tricks...used to make justice not
cost effective for the citiznry.... those are uncalled for..and point to
revenue raizing goals.

the city of SF for instance openly called for increasing parking ticket
revenue by sending more meter maids out to circle the block and nail people
within the first 60 seconds of a meter expiring...thats not legitimate
enforcement, was pure revenue raising and stated that way by the city
officer in charge (who recently was arrested in a crack house).

No integrity you see... governmental abuse of power. And its quite common.

Nah...that doesnt work... we in the US have taxed ourselves into
international uncompetiveness. High paid jobs are vaporizing...there are
limits to taxation and we have grossly exceeded them. You lived in the bay
area in the early 90's Im sure, when burglars and dope peddlers were being
given tickets and left on the street because the state prison system was
broke and when they rose taxes there was an exodus of corporations from
Calif. There are limits to taxation and the size of govt.

Justifying govt on the basis that someone could get hurt otherwise has
limits, life is inherently dangerous, 5000 leo's to prevent one jay walker
you might say is not progress...better a few jay walkers simply get run
over.

Thats because you have chosen to be blind to the larger range of issues with
government, taxation and the viability of nations. You are looking at the
short term, the last 50 or 100 years.... longer term, in the life cycle of
nations, what you see as a good thing, are actually the seeds of its fatal
disease.


Phil Scott

 

Look, if they prioritized stopping crime over generating revenue, do you
think they'd be out in such force with the radar guns? No. So making the
radar gun gambit less profitable is a good thing, because maybe eventually
they'll pull resources from it to REAL police work (i.e. preventing or
solving crimes).

 

FYI: Unless the judge gives you special permission, you aren't eligible for
defensive driving because the ticket was for more than 20 over the speed
limit.

 

Yes, actually, you do. See the newsgroups line? More than one
group=crossposting. Although there's nothing actually WRONG with it.

Actually, you might not know how NOT to.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
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So they handle the increased load by increasing their own pay.

Where's the disincentive?

 

LOL.. Thanks pard.. In my exalted position as Grand Wizardly Supreme
Moderator, I feel that my image should not be tarnished in such a demeaning
manner.. Besides.. my campaign against the corrupt and contemptible
corporation of Whataburger might bring unwarranted critism in that cross
posting practice.. Your kind offer is well received .. You should also be
aware that my vendetta against Whataburger encompassed Ford Motor Company
and that I am in full sympathy with IceLady for putting up with that thing
sitting in her driveway.. Catch you later, my good friend..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Should we immediately take steps to sanction Charles.. I anxiously await
your reply ?? Seems as though he is in active opposition to the campaign
agains Whataburge, also..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

You ask the *court for a transcript of the *court proceedings...that
keeps them from lying to you about the law...saying for instance that a
particular posted 25 mph section is a maximum as in my case, when it was
not.... the more general speed law applies in most of those cases, and that
is 'safe for conditions' above or below the posted sign. That keeps the
court honest.

with the officer you just keep your mouth shut, be polite and cooperative as
in many cases he is doing his job correctly and honorably as he sees fit....
and in some others you might discover he too lied to you about the speed
laws and or misread them himself. If you were doing 137 in a 65 and he
cites you for 80, you thank the man graciously.

The issue of insurance rising with over 2 or 3 tickets is not of course well
supported...its way for insurance companies to defraud customers...when
rates are tied to tickets in that way, true justice involves not being
convicted of heinous crimes like doing 36 in a 25 on a clear dry day with no
other cars, kids or intersections in sight...especially if its set up as a
speed trap zone so that the 35 mile per hour sign is followed just around
the curve from a 25 mph sign and radar cop hidden go nail your ass if you
dont slam on the brakes as you pass the 25 mph sign..

speed traps you see. Not uncommon. And not the decent thing for a
municipality to be engaging in...one must beat those in court.... especially
if the officer lies to you and makes a big deal about a survey that was
done, making that 25 mph speed and absolute max.....when that was not the
case.

If one allows injustices of that sort he allowing corruption in govt...and
that always goes from bad to worse historically. One has the responsibility
of stopping that sort of corruption in its tracks, And that would be
true if you are over the max limit on the freeway but simply staying with
the flow of traffic in order to prevent being run over etc. No jury will
convict in those cases and the courts know it, so they try various tactics
to get a person convicted that are truly not in the interest of justice.

When justice becomes corrupt in a nation, the nation goes south...and we are
having those problems in a few areas.

He should be prepaired... and if he lies, he should be tagged for it. And
if he didnt lie, and the stop was legitimate and safety related and
reasonable considering the surrounding conditions... he should win a
decision,,,and I for one, along with many others would surely support him in
that.

Incorrect... you had better have investigated the issues as Brownse has
posted...the officer has no duty to investigate all the local conditions for
you.... he has a duty to ticket you if he *thinks you were speeding...thats
it..... the court has the duty of parsing that out, and it will be on the
*evidence presented by both sides.

Oh puhleeeze.

[/QUOTE]

 

Yeah, yeah -- I know, I know. I've fully reconsidered, and I'm not
sending the letter after all. It would be pointless and would probably
just result in West Texas motorcyclists getting fucked-with more than
we already do.

Glad I made you laugh, though. But don't chuckle too hard there,
chucklehead. You know as well as I do that I didn't deserve that
ticket, and I know you're smart enough to realize that such
restrictive speed limits on highways are largely a scam.

Damn, I'm sick of being repressed.

Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
DoD #2184
http://www.timkreitz.com

 

The city of SF anounced last spring that they would be increasing traffic
and parking enforcement, parking by a fixed 40,000 per month incease in
*quota..for the express purpose of increasing revenue to the city ..then
increased the fine amounts as well...and have since said they would shorten
the late penalty from 30 to 15 days increasing the number of tickets that
went to double for being late.

That official was just arrested last week in a crack house. His activity
prior to that as reported widely in SF was sanctioned by the city govt..that
asked him to help the city raise more revenue..... speed traps are
historically used for the express purpose of trapping citizens to raise
revenue...its as old as the hills.

Same with the new camera/ traffic light set ups made by Martin Marrietta,
where they split the take with the city...Phoenix Az was not making enough
on thier new set up so shortened the yellows from 4 seconds then to 3
seconds, then to 2 seconds in order to trap citizens across the line in a
red light...that got citizen law suits in Phoenix exposing the mess...San
Diego was off on the same track for a while.

Its the money these days as much or more than it is safety.


Phil Scott

 

That is why you should study brownse's posts carefully and go to
court...that sort of thing grinds a persons entire life down. Were you
staring at your speedo? or dont you know exactly how fast you were going?
In that case the officer must prove his point...to a complicit judge thats
easy...to a jury its not so easy....the court will not want to have a weak
case go to a jury. again read brownse's posts, those are the most accurate
and comprehensive posted to NG on the issue.

and look up 'radar, speeding tickets' on google... you will find its little
better than a wild guess in many cases and worse than that in many others...
all kinds of things affect radar reads. and you have a duty to stand for
what is right....and on those open stretches of Texas roads as you know
driving 65 will get you run over from behind by big trucks....you had better
be moving considerably faster in order to be safe... each time a citizen
bends over for such bogus crap he and the rest of the citizen suffer. Pm a
two lane road you have no other choice.

In calif you can be cited for impeding trafffic even while doing the limit
in the fast lane, if the fast lane is moving faster than you and you are
forcing them to go around you... its *unsafe to go slower that the speed of
traffic and that IS recognized by the law and many officers...others will
cite you for exceeding the max limit...thats why these things need to go to
jury if the court is not smart enough to drop the charges.


Phil Scott



Phil Scott

Phil Scott

 

No, there isn't. There is an actual need for *safe* enforcement, but as
you say it is difficult for driver *or* LEO to judge what is safe, so
they prosecute on something they can measure: speed. I would much
rather people get tickets for bad merging/lane change behavior or going
too *slow* in the left lane. Speed itself is not a problem, it's the
*difference* in speed that causes the big problems. If everyone is
going 70, it's not a problem. The problems are the guy going 90 *and*
the guy going 50. Traffic laws should target those who interrupt the
flow of traffic, not use an arbitrary measure of speed for enforcement.

Uh, yeah, that's the point! Hopefully it'll become so expensive that
they stop pulling everyone over for just speed and start pulling over
people who are real *safety* risks.

I say then it is *especially* important that you bitch when you are
pulled over for something you, and everyone else, does every day. When
you are stopped, it is not *you* that is getting caught, it is the *LEO*
that is getting caught: guilty of enforcing a law that the community
doesn't want. When a law is unjust, who is the real criminal?

 

The main reason for all the filings for discovery are that they cost
their "system" to produce the required information (time, salaries,
dublication costs, recording of responses to RFI's, etc.).[/QUOTE]

That's a good point. I'll have to do that if I ever get another ticket!

 

Duh. My last speeding ticket back in 2000 I got nailed for doing 82 in
a 50. *Conveniently* that was 30 over which is a serious offense. $400
and 11 out of 12 points later I enjoyed seeing my insurance premiums
TRIPLE and they only just started going down again this past year.

Cop was highway patrol and he showed me the readout. Then I learned of
"painting" where they can swipe the radar gun across their target to
consistently add a few extra mph. From the moment I saw the cop car on
the side of the road to the moment they lit me up was about 1.5
miles. During that time they could have clocked anything/one that was
tootling along at that clip. I was going over the limit to pass a dump
truck, but not by the amount they said and he certainly could have
given me a fucking break even if I was. I pulled over immediately,
explained that the truck was carrying a load of gravel that was
peppering me and how I moved over to the right and slowed to 60-65
afterwards.

But an asshole is a cop and a cop is an asshole. At least if the cop's
cruiser says "Highway" on the side of it. C'est la vie. At least he
didn't nail me half an hour earlier when I was going 135mph!

Shut up bitch. Iraqis and farmboys are dying so that you can have your
$1.70/gal gasoline, you own a stupendously powerful motorcycle which
the government didn't force you to jump through hoops to qualify for,
your insurance premiums even AFTER the ticket are prolly one tenth of
what I pay on a good day and to top it all off even with consistent
speeding you can count on getting tagged maybe once every three years.
Unless of course you have your head up your ass and speed whenever you
feel like it instead of being smart.

If that's the case why did you stop at all? Unless you're dumb enough
to get caught on a limited access highway with exits spaced 30 miles
apart, stopping is optional if you own a Ninja!

Or you could do like me and get something that doesn't scream "****
ME" to every police officer in a ten mile radius. What color is that
Ninja, NEON GREEN for added attention getting? Please. The Speed
Triple looks nothing like a sportbike and guess what? Cops cut cruiser
riders slack all the time. In the old man Caddy too I can get away
with 90+mph and the cops don't even lift a brow.

If you want to pose, get yourself some sexy hot vehicle. If you want
to speed think sleeper.

 

^^^^^^^^^
Did you mean "subpoenas" ?

 

Interesting response from a professional LEO.. I especially like the
sentiment about "being involved in an accident where a fatality is
involved".. Most of us don't even consider that part.. Most that don't
consider that part have never been involved in a tragic death or near death
experience.. I can avow first hand, that it is something that will live with
you for the rest of your life.. It doesn't matter whether or not, the
accident was your fault.. Death is an extremely final resolution .. Causing
another's loss of life or permanent injury is a consequence that I surely
hope most of us don't have to suffer.. That consequence is extremely
painful.. Thank you for the post IceMan..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

[/QUOTE]