SYD: St John's course December

No, it implies it to you. Being "lost" can mean and be due to a number of
factors, poor knowledge is but one possibility.

Why? Define lost, level of certification and to the extent procedure needs
improving.

Have you fed that back to them? What did they say? Do you still use them
for training?

That is a big jump there, you from "your experience" to a "logical"
conclusion! You mean to imply that I am aware of what ever issues you have,
and we haven't established if you have recorded your concerns yet?!

Nice try, but you have assumed. One (certified course) has set guidelines,
the other, well, who knows. If the certified course does not met its
criteria, there is redress, the other, well, it wasn't promising to do
anything, was it?
H

 

Hey, I even know the PIN for Helen's fancy sewing machine, and I was
the last person to use it.

Theo

 

Other factors such as?

The levels of certification were itemised earlier in the thread when I
posted, I was talking about St. Johns mainly about 'senior' and not the
'leval 3' certification.

The 'leval 3' certification deals with some (but not all) of the issues
in the 'senior' certification but for various claimed reasons St. Johns
persist with the 'senior' certification.

Their response was a pre printed form letter stating simply that our
letter had been received. Further letter merely generated a follow up
form letter saying that our letter had already been received and read.
No comment either positive or negative was made about the points in
those letters.

See above for 'recorded'. My experience relates to outsourcing a
substantial number of training places from an internal industry
organization RTO which previously performed first aid training to St.
Johns and the subsequent issues that resulted. We aren't talking about
my personal experience 'doing' a course. I was not a trainer but I was
on the RTO training committee and I do hold a current level 3
certificate plus some other related quals.

You have also assumed that if the certified course does not meet
specified criteria that there is redress. That has not been my
experience at all. St. Johns (in particular) seem to practice a
particularly insular and unresponsive form of bureaucracy that is
extremely unresponsive to outside input.

Look, I'm not saying that uncertified courses are automatically good (or
bad for that matter), I'm just saying that certified ones aren't
automatically good either and that each course should be judged on it's
own merits and that the most honest way to do that is to listen to the
people who've actually done the course and not to the people who have a
vested interest in making people believe that their particular bits of
paper have some inherent value.


G-S

 

In aus.motorcycles on Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:25:49 +1100

And if necessary ask people why they think the course is good.

Did it cover scenarios you - with your personal knowledge of the space
it is supposed to cover - think likely?

Did it cover ones you think unlikely or unrelated?

Did the instructor seem knowledgeable by experience rather than just
training?

Were the techniques taught ones that you think you could do if you
found yourself in that situation?

Did the instructor talk about limitations of what was taught?

Did the instructor talk about difficulties you might strike?

Was it too theoretical, was there enough theory?

The answers I give for the one I did are:

Yes. The scenarios covered were your basic sportbike crashes. If
your mate has come off, how do you assess what's been damaged, and how
do you deal with it. Mostly aimed at road bikes rather than dirt (no
mention of dealing with dusty or muddy conditions that I recall) but
usable by dirt riders in the main.

No. All the things he talked about seemed likely to me, and there
were no techniques or problems talked about that weren't crash
related. Some of the injuries mentioned, such as penetration injuries
surprised me as I'd never heard of someone having a mirror stalk
inserted forcibly but I agree they could happen.

Yes. The bod running it had been a rider himself for many years, and
had attended a lot of crashes as an ambo. He'd also dealt with
exactly the scenario he was teaching: out with a bunch of friends and
someone gets hurt. Including once on a desert trip which was
seriously difficult because the ambulance wasn't coming....

Yes. It's all fairly simple stuff as long as you go through the
sequence given in the right order so you handle the most important
things first. CPR was taught which is a fairly difficult thing
really and the instructor said it wasn't likely you'd be able to
do it well after this one short lesson, and that few casualties in
need of it survive even if experienced users do it, especially if
the heart stops. I felt confident I could do the non-CPR stuff.
(I've had several bouts of training in CPR and didn't feel confident
after any of them....)

Yes. Aside from CPR he made it clear that this was how to stabilise
someone until the ambulance got there, so you pretty much kept them
right where they were in the position they were in as much as
possible. NOthing about moving them or longer term care like changing
dressings. I think there was a quick rundown of splinting but only
quick.

Yes. Problems with helmets if the person isn't breathing and you have
to get them off as modern helmets are hard to remove. Problems with
traffic, with multiple injuries. Problems with feeling inadequate
especially if the person dies or is crippled. Problems with not
being able to do everything at once.

Dunno theory is really a problem in this case. We practiced
everything he talked about except dealing with penetration wounds
which are sorta hard to simulate. It seemed a solidly practical
course with enough "and this is why" to show why it made sense.

Zebee

 

Really? Fear, anxiety, adrenaline, grief.....

But do you still use them for training?

? You didn't experience the concern? Is it related to first aid training
or another issue?

I'm sorry to hear that that has been your experience. Do you still use
them, and if so, why?

I find it hard to agree that you judge the individual courses on its merit,
if, first aid training is supposed to be a uniform thing. From your
concerns raised, the RTO in question sounds like they should be avoided,
however, you haven't actually clarified what if any of the issues were/are
other than their processes are not what you like.

I asked why the course that was being advertised and endorsed as a good
course here did not include a certificate. The responses I got were
challenges to attend it myself and that certificate courses cause some
concern about legal implications. There was further talk about it being
specialised, yet no information as to why this was the case. It was pointed
out that it covered helmet removal and motorcycles........and with out any
certification, would it really be _that_ specialised?

Do the pieces of paper matter more than the person's "honest" opinion? Yes.
Why? As you described above, despite your reservation, RTOs are set up to
deliver training to a prescribed level. I'd ask a trainer or the
organisation what value the course has. A fellow student may be able to
provide advice if the trainer was any good, as much as what bike is the
best. I'm happy to make up my own mind.

H

 

Some aren't going to bother, especially if they see no value in the course.
Personal opinion is something that might be of value, to others, it won't
count for much.

The CPR covered/included EAR as well? From your description, not for me and
it based on it being an 8 hour course, possibly not many others.

H

 

Touche.

Would you prescribe an undergraduate or postgraduate qualification? Would
you consider it only relevant if it is taught in the country you plan to
reside in for a long time? Would you go onto emergency medicine or do you
think that might prefer stamp collecting?
H

 

Would Mr be more appropriate?
H

 

That may be a problem. Perhaps that necessitates a career change?

H

 

Noooo, definitely a sex change. Can't have these wimmens performing
manly duties. Their brains will overheat you know.