Stop Helmet Laws Now...

Of course you ignore the bankruptcy of your entire argument...

If "freedom isn't free" whether or not helmets cost/save money is
irrelevant and arguing about it only helps you along the very same
slippery slope you point out. The real question is what rights does
society have over the individual and vice-versa.

After all, we could save tons of money by bringing back slavery. Think
about it Timmy, how much more profitable your business could be if all
you had to pay for was bread and water.

In a truly free soceity motorcyclists have the right to decide what if
any form of protection they need. In a truly free society, healthcare
providers are allowed to pick and choose whom they treat. Who are you
to say how and if they achieve profitability? After all the primary
argument in favor of privatised healthcare is that profit incenvtive
creates a better level of service.

If you have the nerve to make demands upon a largely private
healthcare industry then don't be surprised if those same sort of
demands are placed upon the citizen in return.

If the ABATE clowns were truly men of principle they'd support
legislation that removes the liability hospitals have to treat every
dork that is wheeled through their doors. SO LONG as the anti-helmet
crowd expects a handout, they too will be held acocuntable.

....and thus the helmet wars will continue. Not because there's any
epistemological issue at stake but because ABATE morons are living in
a fantasy of freedom where healthcare providers are rendered less free
in order to provide said privelidge.

 

It only seems that way after years of statist indoctrination and
steady erosion of personal liberties.

There is not a single politican in today's government that has not
been brainwashed into putting the state ahead of the individual.
Liberal, Conservatives, that's all just splitting hairs. Both hold you
inferior to the machinations of government. Yet it was not always like
that!

Yes it does. You pay to support these projects regardless of your
ideas about them or how they should be administered. Case in point,
most Americans drive faster than the posted speed limits. Any fool can
tell you this is an indication that limits should be raised to
accomodate reality and not penalise the majority for driving to their
liking.

Yet your political representation to change these things is all but
nonexistant. Witness the specatacular unpopularity of the second Gulf
War, but government freely ignored it from all considerations. Witness
how states willingly enact laws whose sole purpose is ENSURING a
steady stream of profitable scofflaws.

The tail has been wagging the dog for quite some time now.

Just another bump in the road. Starting with the wholesale destruction
of free markets to government regulation and the lobbying that
controls said process to the arbitrary confiscation of a private
citizen's wealth to the questionable redistribution of income (see
Haliburton)... the Patriot Act is just another chapter in the sad
tragedy that has become America.

 

Helmet laws and speed limit laws have nothing in common (except as to
safety).

High speed kills others - other than the driver of the car that was
speeding. In that case the protection of others over rules the
individuals right to go fast.

Helmet laws hurt no one other than the guy/gal that doesn't wear a
helmet. Unless you can prove not wearing a helmet is an actual factor
( I suspect it might be - I can imagine someone getting hit in the
face by some of these gargantuan at 60+ is a bit higher risk than
someone wearing a full face helmet).

It's kind of like seat belt laws. While I am all for mandatory
seatbelts/safety seats for children (they can't make their own
decision) why should I as an adult have to wear one. It's
unconstitutional. Next thing you know I'm going to go into a
restaurant and they'll refuse to serve me because of an ID tag that
tells them I have high cholesterol.

 

I'm keeping this snippet, Bob, for future reference. You're a liter-bike
convert!

 

Hey me too!

In a previous life I had an open classer. Then I switched to an R6 to
pursue the "smaller, faster, lighter" dogma. For awhile even I had
deluded myself as having hit upon the holy grail. A 600 is already
more than you need for the road.

But who cares about needs? After sampling the triple I am reminded of
the importance of having entirely too much! The Donald Trump approach
to motorcycling.

Now my only other problem is I've apparently become a habitual abuser
again. Suddenly installing a turbo kit in a ZX-12 looks to be the
perfect winter project and there's a barely used one in the paper for
only $5500 obo!

MUST RESIST! Save me PLEASE!!!!!!!!


PS
Should this monstrosity see the light... Nixon, I'm coming to get you
baby!

 

Ron,
I didn't post that, John Pierce did. You replied to me, not him.

--
Odinn

'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://odinn-frigga.tripod.com/scoot
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Personal Homepage ... http://odinn-frigga.tripod.com
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

Fill in the blanks to reply

 

Please, point it out.

What demands are you talking about?

You haven't said anything about any argument I've made.

 

There are plenty of time that I wanted to drive faster than the speed limit but
I didn't feel that my rights as a citizen were being deprived.

Ben

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/rockland_mc_riders

 

Perhaps it reduced that amount they were going up?


Ben

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/rockland_mc_riders

 

That's Canaduh Troy. Learn how to spell.

Dear Mike, having lived and worked among the non-flatlanders of western
Canada for nearly a year, I don't really have it in me to insult them any
more than necessary. Handicapped by a inferior polticial system, frozen alot
without much riding time, no real spectacular tracks that I have heard of
much, a military kept neutered by same political system so they couldn't
invade Sweetwater Montana, kow-towing to the natives at every turn...I
figure they have it pretty rough, and for all of their problems they were
nice, talkative, polite people who invited me into their homes for christmas
when I was away from my family, bought me birthday presents when I couldn't
be home for it, and remembered me when I went back to visit nearly 10 years
later.

Wonderful people. Gorgeous mountains. I'll keep spelling it Canada I think.

 

Yeah, but as was just pointed out, not all lidless riders die
from their injuries, and many of them would have walked away if
they'd been wearing a helmet. Note that I'm not supporting
mandatory helmet laws, just pointing out reality.



--


http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/hhh3/
http://911truth.org/
http://globalresearch.ca/


Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.


http://regulareverydaypeople.com/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://counterpunch.org/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

When the skull breaks on the pavement, the independence, taking
responsibility for one's own actions, and powerful image becomes
a totally helpless invalid who is 100% dependent on others for
treatment and survival.
The rider with the helmet shows that he is taking responsibility
for his actions, and doing what he can to maintain his independence
and avoid becoming a burden on society.



--


http://globalresearch.ca/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

Oops, sorry for the wrong attribution, got lost on the middle of the thread.
Ron

 

Oh crap...... I agree with Demetrius on this one. Damn. Damn. Damn.

You can't have one way freedom. If you're free to ride without a helmet,
then a hospital should be free not to treat you if you can't demonstrate
insurance sufficient to pay them. I wonder how many people would enjoy
their "freedom" to ride without a helmet, if it meant being turned away at
the hospital?

 

What makes you think that anybody in this newgroup gives a **** what
you think, Henry?

 

I'm OK with that.

You can count me as one.

 

Naw.....they'd all knock themselves out on the door frame getting in and out
of the car......

But I do agree that motorcyclists become a target of opportunity for
politicians. I'm just not sure that the politicians are relevant. It
still seems like a cost allocation issue to me, if hospitals are forced to
fix broken people, and certainly county hospitals are. But, as Tim points
out, I don't have definitive comparative costs, and I certainly didn't think
of dead, helmetless riders as a good thing, even economically.

 

For the same reason that education in California didn't get better when we
passed the Lottery.

 

I stopped "seeing" HHH a long time ago when he ended up in his several
entities, in my kill file. Now I only see him when one of you quote him.
If everyone kill filed him, he'd disappear.

 

That, to me, is more the definition of "freedom".... someone who is willing
to pay the consequences, even with their life, for their own choices. Of
course, I have a proviso, which is that you still don't have the right to
initiate hurting others in order to enjoy your freedom of choice.