startup cost

The message <c297v5$1qffq7$-berlin.de>

Not so long ago I was quite happy to buzz around on a TSX. Even where I
was known as an ex Vin and Velo man.

Agreed. Especially in West Scotland. But remember to suspect everyone
else on the road of being an idiot.

 

Of course. Every change, every time.

Thing is, I don't want to have to rebuild my gearboxes every 40k, thank
you very much.

Clutchless changes are the province of racers (who have a reason for it)
who can easily slot in a set of gears between meetings if necessary.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

 

Yes, in that I had to learn to synchronise the "throttle off, flick
lever, throttle on" thing. Previous to that I always did clutch in,
flick lever, clutch out method. Now, I only do it 99% of the time, the
other 1% is for when I feel like *really* going for it off the line.

It doesn't sit well in my mind. I still think that somehow it's not
right, probably because it's different to the way I was taught
originally. I've not had a definitive explanation as to why it's
better, or that it doesn't "harm" the bike, so I'll carry on using the
normal way. I certainly don't feel that it makes me any faster or
smoother in normal riding.

 

Because falling off at 60mph on a 125 hurts much less then falling off off a
sports bike at 60mph.

Cost, I will conceed, is a different matter

 

Would like to try on my Guzzi?

 

Previously on usenet, Grimly Curmudgeon said...

I don't agree. I very rarely use the clutch on upchanges on my bikes.

I've blown the shit out of engines, seized them, broken cranks and
conrods, mashed clutch baskets through hamfisted wheelies, put valves
through pistons etc etc, I even snapped a camshaft once, but...........
...................I have never *ever* damaged a gearbox at all.

Jap gearboxes can withstand almighty amounts of abuse and still keep
coming back for more, unless you own an early R1 or Fazer thou.

--
Lozzo : The anti-Timo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CB250RS x3
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, MIB#22, TCP#7,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, BONY#9.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
http://www.glfuk.com/ for MJK Leathers in the UK.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

Wearing the precisely machined ends off the dogs isn't wrecking the
'box?

Uh huh.

You go on doing it - it's your bike, I don't care. I've no doubt by the
time a gearbox problem shows up, you'll have moved the bike on anyway.

Ah; forcing the remaining part of the dog to take hold.

OK. You go on doing it.

But for all those mechanical ignoramuses out there... **** your gearbox,
do clutchless changes.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

 

Yes you have; you just don't know it.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

 

Previously on usenet, dwb said...

How the **** do you work that out then, Einstein?

I've smashed myself on all manner of machinery over the past 24 years.
I'd say falling off a 100cc bike at 45mph did more damage to my body
than all the accidents I've had on bikes over 400cc put together. It all
depends on the angle you fall at, what you hit on the way down the road
and what finally stops you moving.

Factors like decent kit should be taken into account as well. Many years
ago I sat helpless and watched a 16 year old friend of mine die at the
roadside because his 40 quid helmet came off even though it was tightly
strapped up. Proper good quality kit would have saved his life.

--
Lozzo : The anti-Timo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CB250RS x3
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, MIB#22, TCP#7,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, BONY#9.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
http://www.glfuk.com/ for MJK Leathers in the UK.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

A grand could get you either a tidy CG125 [Makes Sign of Holy Pushrods] or
a ratty old CBR600. Bank on spending at least two or three hundred notes
on a decent lid and some leather or textile clothing. Also, don't forget
the in-sewer-ants.

FWIW, I've a 3XL Belstaff waterproof (Permatex) jacket up for grabs for
£50...plus a coupla pairs of leather jeans (40" waist) for similar money,
size permitting...
;-)
--
| Wik -UKRMHRC#10- 2003 R1150GSA -DC#1 -'FOT#0 'FOF #39 - BOD#12 BOB#12
|# You don't believe me | "Experience is the worst teacher.
|That the scenery | It always gives the test first
|Could be a cold-blooded killer. | and the instruction afterward."
***** human response from wik at blueyonder dot co dot uk *****

 

I think you missed the <sarcasm> and <\sarcasm> tags there, Loz.


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Why is it wearing anything? It's not like you're ramming it into a gear, is
it?

Have you ever actually done a clutchless up-change? Do you know what the
**** you're talking about?

Probably not, my current bike is 3 years old and it will be staying with me
for at least another 3.

But I'll happily bet you a tenner than the gearbox won't be the first thing
to go "sproing!".


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Previously on usenet, AndrewR said...

Yeah I did, maybe I should go back to SteveH's post and insert a <take
no notice of the following cos I'm a know-nothing ****> tag

--
Lozzo : The anti-Timo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CB250RS x3
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, MIB#22, TCP#7,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, BONY#9.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
http://www.glfuk.com/ for MJK Leathers in the UK.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

Yes it is. The slightly undercut location dogs on the ends of the gear
clusters locate positively. The action of unloading the transmission by
using the clutch allows these dogs to slip into place without undue
stress on the corners of them. Sure, you can do it clutchlessly, but you
will impose a tremendous point load on the corners and eventually round
them off. Admittedly this is not as high a load as downward clutchless
changes. Carry on doing that and the usual symptom is jumping out of
gear under load.

Depends on what mileage you're racking up. If you're habitually
clutchless changing every time you shift, I won't be at all surprised if
you start losing gears within the next couple of years.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

 

You're talking from a position of sheer mechanical ignorance.

HTH.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19 COSOC#10

 

Splitting the cases on a modern jap 4 isn't what I'd describe as "easily
slot in a set of gears".

Has this group become the usenet equivalent of a centre for the
mindlessly stupid?

 

I dunno about Champ's mechanical ignorance but I'd have thought that
the gearboxes in bikes like ours will have been designed to do stuff
like clutchless changes. In something like a GS, probably not.

 

I'm on Champ's side.

Dear god, I'm _always_ on Champ's side. Why can't the mangy **** post
something that I can disagree with, eh?


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Previously on usenet, Champ said...

That won't work, everyone knows the north is 30 years behind the times
in fashion terms. Flares have only just come in for the first time in
Newcastle.

--
Lozzo : The anti-Timo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CB250RS x3
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, MIB#22, TCP#7,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, BONY#9.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
http://www.glfuk.com/ for MJK Leathers in the UK.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

 

Champ wrote

I seem always to be on Champs side even when he is being contentious