Starter bikes by specification not by specific model?

As my first post from earlier today mentioned I am new to motorcycles..
I, also, happen to be quite analitical and slightly obsessive.. As such
I have been doing alot of research as to what makes for a good starter
bike. What I have found is not so much a list of qualities but, time
and time again, a list of specific models.. While this may be enough
for some to go off of.. Me and my analitical mind want to know "why"!

So here is what I am asking.. If you had to write a specification for a
starter bike that included the following quantafiable and subjective
stats what would those values be and why?

Quantifiable stats:

Power to weight ration (lbs/HP):
Maximum drie weight (assuming standard healty adult is riding):
Maximum HP regardless of Power to Weight:
Maximum CC regardless of HP:
Maximum Torque regardless of HP or Power to Weight:
Maximum seat height (choose option below)
A) when sitting at a stop a rider must lean to one side to get a
foot onto the ground
B) Both feet touch but only tippy toes
C) Both feet touch but there is little to no knee bend
D) Both feet touch with some knee bend
E) Both feet touch and there is suggnificant knee bend (closer to
the knee bend when sitting)
F) Other
Maximum Price:

Subjective Stats:

Bike Style (Crusier, standard, nude, sport, sport crusier):
Handling (Aggressive, Responsive, Good, Forgiving, Soft):
Chain, Belt or Crank Drive:
Gearing (linear, or extra torque in the lower end)
Bike feel when sitting on it:
Emotional opinion (how much respect/confidence you have sitting on the
machine/after a test ride):
Reliability:


I know this is alot to ask you guys to respond to & some of it seems
obvious But what I am trying to build is a concept of what
specifications make a bike a good starter bike.. I would like to do
this so that rather than looking at the few specific bikes that have
been labled as "starter bikes" I can make an intellegent decision on a
bike choose.. Not to mention that if 10 or 15 of you respond to this,
then the Google link to this thread can be kept to share with all
newbies moving forward so that they can have a better level of
understanding while they take this journy ...

 

<<<<<shnip happens>>>>>

you're overthinking this thing. just figure the first bike you get is
not going to be your last, ergo, go find something lightly used that you
like for not too much money and not too much power and get the damn
thing. if it turns out that you don't like it, sell it. most any bike
will tax your abilities long before you find the limits of the bike so
make our life easy. you're going to drop it sooner or later, that's
part of riding, especially starting out. you may not like riding after
you've done it for a little while in midsummer heat and had the crap
scared outta you by some cager a time or two. if that's the case, you
can sell the bike and no big loss. if you decide to keep riding, after
a while you will have a better idea of what fits you best.

as for any specifications for a bike itself, you're the only one who can
tell what fits you best, but i will say this: you wouldn't put a
beginning driver behind the wheel of a Z06 corvette, so as a beginning
motorcyclist don't put yourself in the equivalent situation. if you do
decide to go that route, please let me know. i'd like to take out a
life insurance policy on you with me as the payable beneficiary. good
luck and post when you get something.

 

And people wonder why newbies get confused as to what is a responsible
starter bike ... In just two posts I have been told to get
something "cheap" and not to "powerful". Well every motorcycle is
powerful compared to even a half decent car so thats not to helpful
(given a newbies knowledge base of Zero) but is a ballpark to shoot
for. AND I've been told that if its on a show-room floor and I'm a
careful rider that it will be a decent starter bike.. Those two posts
illistarate why I think the absence of a Survey across knowledgeable
bikers on what criteria define a good starter bike would be quite
useful for future newbies that are trying to understand as much as they
can before they commit .

After all how useful would it have been for you, when you were a
newbie, if you were able to read what 10 or 15 people said made up a
good bike.. All of them using the same criteria and nomenclature; I
know it would help me out a ton.. And I can't be the only engineering
minded person who has ever considered getting a bike ...


Thanks for putting up with me
Josh

 

Look, opinions are like arse-holes...everyone has one. Why can you not
build a consensus? Because there simply isn't one. My first bikes were
street standard 750s. VERY powerful compared to the 250s that put folks
on in the MSF course. Not INCREDIBLY powerful compared to my 1100 Ninja
or 1800 VTX.

But everyone has to make some choices on their own. And everyone's
situation is different. If you're a young guy who makes $30k a year,
buying a new sport bike which is likely to get trashed may not be a
bright move, EVEN IF you're smart and cautious and not a squid. But if
you're a bit older, sane, and make $100k, then the loss of a $10k
motorcycle to inexperienced mishaps of a non-velocity kind may not
bother you as much, for example.

Would I EVER recommend a powerful bike to a newbie? No. But I'm an
American and by god I'd never deny your right to get on whatever you
damn well please. Just be careful.

But if you ask for ADVICE, all you can REALLY be given is GENERAL
advice. Your questions are FAR too specific.

FIRST, BEFORE you buy anything, take the damn MSF course. This will
give you an initial baseline for how much power may or may not be "too
much" and how big and heavy a bike may or may not be. YOU must
establish these baseline judgments. I'd never suggest a 500 cc Virago
as a starter bike for an 80 pound girl. It's potentially too big. But
that same bike would possibly be too SMALL and not powerful ENOUGH if
you were a 6'6", 350 pound ex college football lineman. Thus
illustrating that your questions simply are not quantifiable.

THEN after you've established these criteria, using your own intimate
knowledge of your tastes, economic capabilities, and desires, go
shopping. KNOW that even tho you are educated and basically trained,
your first bike is likely to take some mishaps. These may or may not be
while driving.

For the last few years the big badass has been the Suzuki Hayabusa, and
the new badass IMHO is the Kawasaki ZX-14. Are these starter bikes?
HELL NO. But I guarantee you that SOMEWHERE, SOMEONE has bought one as
their first bike, and LO, they did not die, they did not crash, they did
not destroy the bike. And today, someone else IS BUYING one, and will
not die on it. It's POSSIBLE. It's just less likely. That's why all
we can do for you is give you guidelines.

If you were my buddy, I'd take you cycle shopping. We'd look at
different bikes. I'd look at you on them and tell you what I see. I'd
have some knowledge of your general physicality and your athleticism.
I'd have a clue if you could walk and chew gum at the same time. I'd
know if you'd be o.k. on a 500 ninja or if you'd really be better of
staying away from anything with wheels that you can fall off
of...including a skateboard. But we do NOT know you so we can NOT know
these things.

This is far too complex a series of if-then statements to plug into your
survey. I'm SORRY it is, but it is. I wish we could say, "This is the
starter bike. Buy it, ride it for 18 months, and you'll never die on a
motorcycle because it's the perfect starter bike." LOL Wouldn't that
be cool?

Seriously tho, if you're in the Dallas area, I'd be willing to meet you
at a bike shop and just do some general bike talk and get a better feel
for what you want and so on. I don't know if anyone in anther city
would do the same but maybe. Just a thought. Good luck.

 

You're making it way too complicated. Buy a bike 'you' want. Place your
engineering minded ass upon it and learn to ride.

.....louie

 

good toungue in cheek.

you are thinking more of the bar hoppers on the H-Ds who admire the butt
jewelry from the porch between brief bar hops where the process is
repeated. discouraging high mileage is done to preserve their
"investment" in the bike. regular polishing and cleaning is paramount
for the HOGgers.

glossy finish and paint aren't a concern to the bmw group. they are
more interested in additional fuel cells for extended range and farkles
for long distance navigation and night riding. bmw riders tend to be
high mileage riders who don't stop riding very often for much of
anything. ask BeemerBiker if you don't believe me. <g>

 

That (surveys) has been done time and time again. Google it, or I suggest
that rec.motorcycles is a good place to start, if you haven't already posted
there and been flamed to a crisp. Everyone is different and everyone has
an opinion. It becomes even more confusing after that.

No, you aren't the only "engineering minded person who has ever considered
getting a bike." But you could get lucky like my hubby and fall in love
with the first bike you sit on, then buy it. And it was perfect for him, at
least for the last 6 years. Now he's planning to build *the perfect bike*.

From reading your original post and subsequent posts, I have to agree that
you really are over-thinking this. It tells me that you really aren't ready
to commit to riding on two wheels. While being overly analytical, you're
missing the opportunty to be exploring the possibilities.
Research to your hearts content. IMO, as long as you're analyzing and not
actually experiencing, you'll stay safe.

Ditto.

--
Sunny Williams
(sunny will at txvets dot org)
IRPK, ISRA #7123
Director/Webmaster for
Texas Veterans Assoc., Chapter 3
http://www.txvets.org/

 

Josh, that is all well and good, but it still boils down to what kind of
riding you plan on doing. Usually, a new rider, mainly rides around
town, and ventures out on the back roads, for months.
Find a used 600 to a 750 any kind of bike. Mainly find one, that you
actually have a local dealership, to go to when necessary.Like around
here, nobody rides Suzzukys or Kawasockys, cause there ain't no good
dealership here, that anybody likes. (chuckle)
After taking the MSF training you will damn sure know you dont want no
small bike.
Like everyone has said, you ain't gonna keep that first'un, after you
think you are a good rider, you'll want a bigg'un. mainly because all
your friends will either ride harleys are 1100's and up, and you'll want
some power, it is human nature.
my 3cents. good luck, bjay

Joshs original post, below-
(Josh)
~~~As my first post from earlier today mentioned I am new to
motorcycles.. I, also, happen to be quite analitical and slightly
obsessive.. As such I have been doing alot of research as to what makes
for a good starter bike. What I have found is not so much a list of
qualities but, time and time again, a list of specific models.. While
this may be enough for some to go off of.. Me and my analitical mind
want to know "why"!
So here is what I am asking.. If you had to write a specification for a
starter bike that included the following quantafiable and subjective
stats what would those values be and why?
Quantifiable stats:
Power to weight ration (lbs/HP):
Maximum drie weight (assuming standard healty adult is riding): Maximum
HP regardless of Power to Weight: Maximum CC regardless of HP:
Maximum Torque regardless of HP or Power to Weight: Maximum seat height
(choose option below)
        A) when sitting at a stop a rider must lean to
one side to get a foot onto the ground
        B) Both feet touch but only tippy toes
        C) Both feet touch but there is little to no
knee bend
        D) Both feet touch with some knee bend
        E) Both feet touch and there is suggnificant
knee bend (closer to the knee bend when sitting)
        F) Other
Maximum Price:
Subjective Stats:
Bike Style (Crusier, standard, nude, sport, sport crusier): Handling
(Aggressive, Responsive, Good, Forgiving, Soft): Chain, Belt or Crank
Drive:
Gearing (linear, or extra torque in the lower end) Bike feel when
sitting on it:
Emotional opinion (how much respect/confidence you have sitting on the
machine/after a test ride):
Reliability:
I know this is alot to ask you guys to respond to & some of it seems
obvious But what I am trying to build is a concept of what
specifications make a bike a good starter bike.. I would like to do this
so that rather than looking at the few specific bikes that have been
labled as "starter bikes" I can make an intellegent decision on a bike
choose.. Not to mention that if 10 or 15 of you respond to this, then
the Google link to this thread can be kept to share with all newbies
moving forward so that they can have a better level of understanding
while they take this journy ...

 

(RL)
(sunny suggests)
Josh:
Google it, or I suggest that rec.motorcycles is a good place to start,
if you haven't already posted there and been flamed to a crisp.
Everyone is different and everyone has an opinion. It becomes even more
confusing after that.



LMAO. ''flamed to a crisp''. funnnnnnnny, but those folks are so
intelligent and informational, josh needs to go out on a limb, and get
their opinions. <g>