So, is Vince out of a job?

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by ginge, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. ginge

    Lozzo Guest

    You forgot the whippets

    --
    Lozzo
    Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
    in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
    BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
    they churn out)
     
    Lozzo, Dec 24, 2010
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. The Older Gentleman, Dec 24, 2010
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. ginge

    boots Guest

    I'd have thought only a working nose would be required to find a
    polecat.
     
    boots, Dec 24, 2010
    #23
  4. ginge

    boots Guest

    Might hide the general smell of old wee
     
    boots, Dec 24, 2010
    #24
  5. This is your attempt at supporting the libdems over this issue?
     
    stephen.packer, Dec 27, 2010
    #25
  6. ginge

    ogden Guest

    wrote:
    Not sure I'd go that far. It's more an attempt to add some detail to the
    discussion, rather that have it continue in a debate between "**** 'em"
    and "no poor person will ever go to uni again".

    I'm not sure it worked.
     
    ogden, Dec 27, 2010
    #26
  7. In reality I don't get the hysteria about the 'poor', this policy surely
    targets the middle income families transferring the burden of education
    funding from the state either to the parents or the children of said
    middle income parents?

    I must admit I am very disappointed though that people feel they can
    sign a document and then ignore it because they didn't get elected.
    However... I'm a pragmatist and in their situation I don't really want
    to consider how I would respond. Abstain seems a good response for the
    back-benchers.

    I'm also quietly amused by the response of a lot of the protestors that
    I've been observing on twitter, websites etc. etc. etc. Amused by the
    impact it's had on me; I've moved on from berating my children for *not*
    demonstrating to feeling that I can accept the rise in fees because I
    feel so alienated from the views expressed. Maybe I'm in a minority?
     
    stephen.packer, Dec 27, 2010
    #27
  8. ginge

    Lady Nina Guest

    For detail I still think this has yet to be beaten (though I'm happy
    to be pointed at anything similar) for pointing out that it's not
    about the fees.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n21/stefan-collini/brownes-gamble

    "Much of the initial response to the Browne Report seems to have
    missed the point. Its proposals have been discussed almost entirely in
    terms of ‘a rise in fees’. Analysis has largely concentrated on the
    amount graduates might pay and on which social groups may gain or lose
    by comparison with the present system. In other words, the discussion
    has focused narrowly on the potential financial implications for the
    individual student, and here it should be recognised that some of the
    details of Browne’s proposed system of graduate contributions to the
    cost of fees are, if his premises are granted, an improvement on the
    present patchwork arrangements.

    But the report proposes a far, far more fundamental change to the way
    universities are financed than is suggested by this concentration on
    income thresholds and repayment rates. Essentially, Browne is
    contending that we should no longer think of higher education as the
    provision of a public good, articulated through educational judgment
    and largely financed by public funds (in recent years supplemented by
    a relatively small fee element). Instead, we should think of it as a
    lightly regulated market in which consumer demand, in the form of
    student choice, is sovereign in determining what is offered by service
    providers (i.e. universities). The single most radical recommendation
    in the report, by quite a long way, is the almost complete withdrawal
    of the present annual block grant that government makes to
    universities to underwrite their teaching, currently around £3.9
    billion. This is more than simply a ‘cut’, even a draconian one: it
    signals a redefinition of higher education and the retreat of the
    state from financial responsibility for it."
    lacked conviction.
     
    Lady Nina, Dec 29, 2010
    #28
  9. ginge

    wessie Guest

    Empty rooms are appearing in the corridors of my dept. Academics that
    retire or move to new pastures aren't being replaced. Most of the tutors on
    my course are part time. A mate in year 2 of his PhD is being asked to
    increase his teaching commitments: when I was an undergrad they mostly did
    the undergrad seminars and the odd guest lecture spot. Now he is being
    asked to teach entire modules on Masters courses. Of course, once he gets
    his PhD they won't give him a job as there will be another cheap doctoral
    student to take his place.
     
    wessie, Dec 29, 2010
    #29
  10. ginge

    ginge Guest

    How does this differ from any other industry? Any paid role in
    education is ultimately still just a job, and you'll find people in
    jobs all over the world are asked to do things above and beyond their
    contracted roles all the time.
     
    ginge, Dec 29, 2010
    #30
  11. ginge

    Andy Bonwick Guest

    Most of them just get on with it but that's probably because they've
    been dealing with similar situations all their working lives.

    I might be able to find a shred of sympathy if the universities start
    bringing in East European contractors on 50% of the rate they'd been
    previously paying but until then tough luck.
     
    Andy Bonwick, Dec 29, 2010
    #31
  12. ginge

    Colin Irvine Guest

    Colin Irvine, Dec 29, 2010
    #32
  13. ginge

    ginge Guest

    Hang on, a Ph.D isn't 'training for another role', it's (usually
    funded) research to get a doctorate. The funding is naturally only
    for a finite duration too, just like any other fixed period contract
    in industry. Would you expect everyone else with a fixed period
    contract to be offered a paid permanent role at the end of a fixed
    term contract, or a more senior role just because they'd gained new
    skills on the job? I wouldn't.

    And out there in industry I regularly see dozens of people take on
    additional work, be sent abroad for months at a time, run projects
    alongside their day job, get seconded to manage whole departments -
    for no extra money, or guarantee of promotion.

    I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's how things are, and
    education shouldn't be surprised that the practices that have become
    rife in the private sector are now finding their way to the public
    sector.
     
    ginge, Dec 29, 2010
    #33
  14. ginge

    Colin Irvine Guest

    Not in a good firm, or where there's a decent trade union.
     
    Colin Irvine, Dec 29, 2010
    #34
  15. ginge

    Cab Guest

    <snip>

    Is it only me, or did anyone else think of the dwarf when ginge posted this?
     
    Cab, Dec 29, 2010
    #35
  16. ginge

    ginge Guest

    I've never claimed the entire UK software industry is being shipped
    offshore, more that a large amount of technology work has been going
    there in recent years, at the expense of local growth, and will
    continue to do so.

    It's not just technology, that's quite a mature market now. The next
    10 years will see Accounting, HR and procurement, that sort of thing s
    being moved now by various PLC's. Even the NHS is doing it with
    back-office jobs, and after this batch of cuts it wouldn't be a
    surprise to see several councils jump onboard.
    How about at customers or suppliers you've worked with in your job,
    have you never seen that kind of thing happen there either?
     
    ginge, Dec 29, 2010
    #36
  17. ginge

    ogden Guest

    IME most people with office jobs don't seem to think that trade unions
    are relevant to them, even when they're being screwed by their employer.
    The only significant exception being the public or ex-public sector.
     
    ogden, Dec 29, 2010
    #37
  18. ginge

    Stephen Guest

    Really?

    I've seen many of the above in my career. I would comment for balance
    though that being sent abroad for months at a go is usually something
    people want to do.
     
    Stephen, Dec 29, 2010
    #38
  19. ginge

    Ace Guest

    I've done both, and never seen the sort of thing that Ginge decribes
    either. Although I've been aware of it at Ginge's mob, who I've worked
    with several times over the years.
     
    Ace, Dec 29, 2010
    #39
  20. ginge

    Stephen Guest

    Probably has a lot to do with it.

    But surely you've been in 'crunch' times when you've been asked to
    take on other responsibilities due to lack of resources? I know I
    often have to take responsibility for things completely outside of my
    remit.
     
    Stephen, Dec 29, 2010
    #40
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.