Septic takes another pole!

My prejudices? Dood, I didn't overlook a new talent that's dominating
your big series right out of the box, just like I won't overlook Hodgy
if he should ever actually do something here, nor have I overlooked the
"lad" Davies success, but yes, I do believe anti-Amercanism is alive
and well. And by the way, I'm not here to make judgement whether it's
deserved, or not, though it is interesting to see it in action,
especially so when it seems to blind folks about something very special
that seems to be unfolding right in-front of their eyes, fascinating
stuff actually..

TBH, I really have no idea what your "World SSport" is and was being
facetious, but as fucked-up as everything is here you never know what
other septic you might have to deal with in the near future....

 

WSS is frequently the best race of the day at WSB meetings. Just as
125GP is often the best race at MotoGp meetings. But then I don't
suppose you get much coverage of either in the USA so you can't be
expected to know that.

So is there anyone in DSB now (or even ASB) who could push their career
on by going WSS racing? The way that Rea, Crutchlow, Laverty, Pitt are
doing.

 

You really do live in a fantasy world. The weird thing is, Tom seems
to have joined you there, despite the fact that the two of you can't
stand each other.

 

It certainly was at Qatar - amazing stuff!

 

All of your examples demonstrate that Spies is a class above guys like
Hayes, Bostrom, and Sykes...but none of them actually prove any of the
resentment that Tom seems to think is in this thread over Spies
success.

 

Sorry Tom, what you're seeing isn't anit-Americanism, it's
anti-asshole-ism. Namely anti-T3. You come in here acting like a
flaming asshole and when people respond you proclaim that it must be
"anti-septicism". Then you decide after the fact that you did it on
purpose to see how much response you'd get which makes your search a
self fulfilling prophecy. I think you actually came in here genuinely
hoping to do some smack talking and it's only after you were called on
being a prick that you back pedaled and changed your plan. You still
claim there's some sort of resentment towards Spies and yet there
isn't a single message in this thread that shows any. Finally, after
admitting to the troll you try and take some moral high ground by
proclaiming your lack of prejudice and aversion to making judgements.
What an ass!

 

Ummm... Just for the record:

a) I'm American (even if I'm living in England at the moment).

b) I think Haga made a good choice moving to Ducati and never said
otherwise.

However good I may think the Yamaha is, I don't think there's much
between it and the Ducati this year. Yamaha's just produced a
fabulous bike that has bridged the apparently large gap between their
'08 bike and the '08 Ducati.

-Dirt-

 

Why can't I believe that Spies is a great rider who's bringing a lot
to the table *AND* think that Yamaha made a great bike? Why does it
have to be a conspiracy?

-Dirt-

 

I haven't paid much attention to WSB because until fairly recently they
didn't come here, or have any guys I knew anything about in the series,
though Speed certainly doesn't show them in a timely fashion. Heh, if
there had been a Nascar race yesterday I doubt we'd have seen SB on a
SDD..

It's soo fucked up over here right now it's hard to say, but most of
the guys who have done anything are getting long in the tooth and while
we've got a whole bunch of new faces in the cue it's gonna be a while
before much is known about them...

 

Err, I think the 5 point difference is in the average points score, not
in the total. And I think it reduces to
- Take all the points from the top two 4s
- Take all the points from the top two 2s
- Divide by 6 for the end of the 3rd meeting and so 6th race
If the numbers you end with differ by more than >5 and the larger number
is from the group with the championship leader the weight change comes
into effect.

So we have
Philip Island, 25+13+20+13 vs 20+16+25+16 = 71/2 vs 77/2 = 35.5 vs 38.5
Qatar, 20+10+20+4 vs 25+16+25+16 = 54/2 vs 82/2 = 27 vs 41

So right now I make that 125 Twins vs 159 4s divide by 4 is 31.25 vs
39.75 or well over 5 points. It comes out the same way though. If Spies
ends up leading after Valencia and unless Haga, Laconi, Smrz, Byrne pack
the places behind Spies to push the 2nd four back down the field, it's
highly likely Ducati will get a 3kg drop.

Is this fair? Damned if I know.

If Haga is leading, then Corse need the second Ducati to finish but low
down the points to avoid a penalty. If Haga is not leading, then Corse
need the second Ducati to finish but low down the points to get a weight
reduction. Right?

 

Really? Damn, I guess we're not alone when it comes to weird rules..

What I thought was interesting was the almost 180 degree turn the race
commentator took between PI and Qatar, now it would appear the luvfest
is on, but your probably right, when he has that inevitable off week
watch out...

 

I like to think of it as a poll, but if you think troll I'm cool with
that too..

Again Neal, ask yourself why anyone would spend time bitching at me for
using the group as it was designed if they weren't just a little upset
that some new guy is pissin' in their porrage. At one time we didn't
post results, sometimes for days, because some folks didn't have either
cable, sat, or broadband, and as you know that is not the case much
anymore, but that aside every online magazine had it in their headlines
prior to my post, so please stop, ok? It is what it is and we both know
the anti-USA fire has been around for a while, so, I thought it might
be time to check the coals, but obviously it has a way to go before any
one can cook on it...

 

Wow Dave, that was stunning, stunningly feeble. It's like this Mr.
Dave, this is USENET and this is a NEWS DISCUSSION GROUP pertaining to
motorcycle racing, you with me so far? I hope so. My question to you
and anyone else as well, is what part of Spies (AKA septic) winning
another pole wasn't news and why didn't you want to discuss it as such?
Perhaps a more relevant question might be, why are you even here? I'll
try to make this even easier for you to grasp, okay Dave? This
group/board is kinda' like a wiki-newspaper pertaining to all things
involving motorcycle racing and within those parameters just about
anyone on the planet can post anything at anytime, by design this group
was created to discuss MOTORCYCLE RACING NEWS. Now, if you, or someone
went out of their way and picked up this newspaper and was genuinely
put-off by a headline I suggest you, or they might consider getting off
their ass and learn to use the filters in their NEWSREADER, or maybe
move to one of those M/C chat rooms with the smurphy moticoms, because
I, for one, am damn sure not going to change any thing about how I
post, sorry Mr. Dave it just ain't gonna happen. Asking, damning, or
bitching about me using this group as it was designed because you, or
them are too lazy, or inept makes that gripe ring more than a little
hollow, though from the tenor of your post it would appear you really
had something else in mind.
As far as my motivation, beyond me who gives a shit and why should
they? I gave my reasons for posting and if you knew anything about me,
or had spend much time in this group you would know that and by the
way, exactly what has been your contributions here? Unless Brighthouse
is dropping posts I don't recall (M)any at all, hmm. Oh yeah, I almost
forgot. I sought no ground whatsoever, what anyone believes, or if they
dislike someone because of his origin is something they have to live
with, not me, beyond a few electrons it does not impact me in any way
whatsoever, though as I said I do find that lameness mildly interesting.
In closing I'm find it curious that you and a couple others would spend
time bitching at me for using this group as it was designed instead of
discussing an exceptional event that's unfolding, but to me the money
question is if I can draw any conclusion's from it and believe me I
have. Oh, just so you know, don't waste your time trying to claw your
way out of the big hole you've dug with any rebuttal, beating up on
unarmed goof's isn't my thing..

Opps, I almost forgot, as far as my ass goes, you can kiss it...

 

You're right, I was reading the rule incorrectly, missed the whole
"event average" thing. But I think you have it wrong as well, it's an
event average and not a race average. So with fours having scored 34
points more than twins over two races (and I agree with that
difference, my first calculation was done with me thinking Haslam was
on a twin), which makes the event average difference 17 points. Which
means almost certainly fours will be up by more than 5 points after 3
rounds - the top 2 twins would have to outscore the fours by 19 points
at Valencia to make that happen, and that would take something like
Haga winning and Fabrizio finishing on the box in both races, I
think.

I think there are two issues here, what the rules should be for twins
vs. fours and the rule that adjusts that balance on an ongoing basis.
What we know is that WSB, BSB and DMG all have chosen to weight
Ducatis in their separate rules formulations, we know that on some
level both the Japanese and Ducati have accepted that, so there
probably is some logic behind that. And we know the adjustment didn't
impact WSB last year, so that mechanism suggested twins should have
their handicaps applied; in BSB the addtion of weight to twins was
actually triggered, although it didn't entirely happen in the end. So
I think restricting twins somewhat under otherwise equal mod rules
probably makes sense.

As for the WSB adjustment rule, I think it clearly is designed to work
in favor of twins (read: Ducati), and it's hard to argue otherwise.
Really the only fair ways to do this would be to weight the averaging
by numbers of participants or manufacturers, or to simply make the
rule fixed and only changed by a specific action by WSB and the FIM,
which they would then have to justify.

In order to add weight to the Ducati, Haga has to lead and twins would
have to do well enough to get that event aveage above +5, and right
now it's -17. So unlikely to happen, and it definitely would take
consistent very high finishes by two Ducatis. So, as was the case last
year, Ducati benefits by having Fabrizio as their #2 at Corse and
there being no other "factory" twins in the series. Fabrizio also
needs to step it up in order for the weight to stay the same, because
right now fours have a comfortable margin in event average. So that
brings it back to hwho's leading in points, and in this respect both
guys benefit by trailing.

Think of it as the last lap at Daytona and Spies and Haga are glued
together going into the chicane...

 

I'm sure you are, but I'm interested to see how you do it

 

Well, it all comes down to what "a great bike" really means, right?
Obviously it's a good bike, Spies can win on it right out of the box,
with somewhat limited development and his lack of meaningful track
knowledge. But that pretty much goes without saying. All this talk
about how good that machine is (look at Julian's analysis in another
thread) smacks more of "Spies is winning because of the bike, and Haga
is at a disadvantage on the Ducati", a view which strikes me as both
readily apparent and rather absurd. The 1200 Ducati won both the WSB
and BSB championships by a wide margin last year, it's first season,
Haga did win on a private Ducati in '04 (and Julian is wrong about
that, it was a 999 that Renegade ran that year), and Haga is hardly
struggling on it this year by all indications, certainly going through
no more adjustments than Spies is. Historically the WSB rules have
helped make Ducatis the best bikes, the only exception to that might
have been under 1000cc rules when Ducati used the 999, which was
viewed as a somewhat problematic machine. So there's really no good
reason to think the Corse Ducati isn't the best machine this year, is
there?

 

Ah, so because some people (not me, but I do think it's goos
netiquette) have called you on posting a spoiler, that's
anti-americanism. And that automatically means that they're
anti-Spies.

You wanker. Dave had it right - it's not anti-americanism, it's
anti-arsehole. I can see you you'd get confused, tho.

So - put up or shut up. Find me a post criticising Spies, or ****
off.

 

Did I ever *SAY* that it wasn't? I said, "I don't think there's much
between it and the Ducati this year."

Again, IMO, Haga made a sound decision at the time last year to move
to Ducati, which was and may still be the best bike in the field.
Does he regret it? Maybe so and maybe deservedly so. Only time will
tell.

Spies has moved into WSB on a new bike, on new tires, with a new team
and on new tracks and has won three out of four races while the fourth
saw him punted out of the top five(?) on the 2nd corner. If he keeps
up this form he could clean up this year. Is it the bike? I'm sure
it is in part, but I also think he's a brilliant rider who's beaten
Mladin, one of the best SB riders ever, consistently over the past
three years.

Why does it have to be a conspiracy or a bias or anti-septicism? I
was only trying to point out that I though Yamaha had really done
their homework and had produced a real cracker of a motorcycle this
year. Why can't I just appreciate that everyone made what they
believed were the best decisions at the time and enjoy the relatively
level paying field at the very top?

-Dirt-

 

Here's a clue, dumbass. How often do you see us discussing Superpole
results in rmr? You see, many of the regulars actually do avoid the
newsgroup during race weekends and by the time they return it's the
races that matter, not the Superpole. This time it just happened to
catch a few of us off guard because everything was a day earlier than
usual.

Given that you posted your troll early Friday morning just confirms
that you weren't intentionally trolling as you claim. You were here
to talk smack. But how often do you actually see that kind of
juvenile behavior here? Only when the likes of Auscars shows up.
When you got called on it you tried to twist it into some deliberate
attempt to oust the Spies haters. You have some twisted idea that
everyone who dislikes your attitude must be an anti-American Spies
hater, and the only evidence you can think of to support that notion
is that there wasn't a Superpole discussion already underway before
your early morning tirade. The fact is you jumped in and pulled an
Auscars before anyone even had a chance to strike up any discussions.


And then you go on to assume that I was referring to your spoiler
subject. Did I even mention it in my message?

Finally we get the prototypical T3 response to anyone challenging his
opinions for which he knows he has no defensible position...

He always starts with the "I'll make it simple for you..." insult.

Then there's the "I've been here longer than you!"

Followed by the attempt to turn the tables around with "what have YOU
done?"

All of which is the hallmark of someone who has no ground to stand on
but refuses to change his position. Your post was empty and
completely devoid of any meaningful response, Tom.

BUT, let's not forget that we have to end with the absolute trademark
T3 closing that he always uses to weasel his way out of the
argument... "Don't bother responding because I'm smart and you're
stupid!"

Ouch! That really put me in my place, didn't it? Oh how many times
has he tried to use that one! Give it up Tom. I'm not in a big hole
because I'm not the one blowing in here making unsubstantiated
prejudicial statements about the non-Americans in the group.

 

If only it were that simple. How can you deny us the simple pleasure of
ridiculous speculation on not enough data? And especially when it's so
interesting with a new bike, a big-bang motor[1] and a new rider all
appearing at the same time.

[1]A first for WSB, I think.