Sept 28. London Demo against Westminster Council M/C parking charges

It's yet another link in the chain that is 'monitoring the whereabouts
of Joe Public'... unless you happen to be using someone elses card to
pay, of course.

Oh... I must be paranoid then, only it read like that?

That's your perception of its use - that wasn't the intention.

I was referring more to the method of payment than where the money
raised by it will ultimately end up.

It's my opinion, something I'm currently still allowed to freely
express... so long as I choose not to do it with a group of other
likeminded souls and it's then viewed as a demonstration that requires
the nod from plod before it can legally proceed.

I'm sick of living in a society whereby we seem to be being constantly
being asked to pay out for more and more things, more of the time.

A society whereby a raft of extra laws have been passed which
seemingly serve the purpose of making life a pain in the arse for the
masses, and asking them to pay for the privilege to boot.

I don't think that in its own right makes you dumb... I think not
viewing this in the overall scheme of things and where we're heading
as a society in terms of what we're expected to pay out for and how
we're monitored, is blinkered at best...

Here we go again... I changed my posting name to a pseudonym *ages*
ago, not to cover anything up, but because, amongst other things, I
didn't particularly like it when some fuckwit in another group decided
to post a number of unsavoury untruths under my real name.

I'm not alone in posting under a pseudonym... the bulk of the other
regulars here also do it in case you hadn't noticed - you don't appear
to feel the need to mention this, even though their posting email
accounts have changed on occasion when they've moved ISP etc, and yet
I've not seen you bang on about that, either.

The fact you've decided to post under your real name is your
perogative,,, the fact I post under a pseudonym is mine, and it's no
secret around these parts as to who I really am, so it's not like I'm
hiding anything.

No doubt you'll now resort to your usual trick when someone gets your
back up, and you'll disrespect the fact they've chosen to post under a
pseudonym and start referring to them by their real name.
..
FWIW, it doesn't really bother me when you decide to do that in
relation to me... in fact I've come to expect nothing less from you.

However, all it does is mark you down as a bit of a petty petulant
**** when you do IMHO, so feel free to continue if you're happy to be
viewed in that light.

 

Why not?

See below first before bitch slapping me

I understand that...

Why should we?

Why should we even be paying to park cars?

It used to be free in the ring around the outside of Regents Park
IIRC... now you have to pay.

Yes, I understand that in its own way, together with the congestion
charge it's a way of managing traffic but why is it all of a sudden
that councils *have* to apparently make so much money off the back of
parking to balance their books?

It's not as if business rates / council tax are at an all time low pro-
rata, or that vast swathes of property is sitting empty compared to in
the past and therefore isn't generating council tax / business rates
for the councils concerned, so where, in view of sawn off services
like bi-weekly rubbish collections etc, is all this extra money going?

See now what I'm getting at?

If I could see what *benefit* we were all getting from being expected
to pay out for more, more of the time, then I would concede the point.

I don't see any real benefits to us all, unless you think CCTV, ANPR
and ever increasing layers of nanny state enforcement oscifers and the
like being rolled out everywhere, as a good thing...

*Look* at the general culture we now live in whereby fines are the
order of the day... are you happy living in a country that has a
regime in place that seems to *really* dislike its subjects and is
looking to catch them out wherever possible with a fine or two for
things that by enlarge were never a problem in the past, and ergo,
never officially recognised as something worthy of a fine if you were
caught doing it?

Another thing... have you looked on the DVLA site lately?

There is an report on there regarding RFID for bikes... 'Electronic
Vehicle Identification (EVI) for motorcycles - Microsoft Word Document
(50 Kb)'

You used to be able to open and read this... now it's passworded once
you click on the link to it.

....va voom. ;-)

But you don't get that - all you're getting at present is a few extra
bays where there used to be a loading bay or double yellows (and thus
no revenue is being lost as such).

I don't see why just because another subset of the transport world is
being milked for all its worth by the state at present, this
particular one *has* to be dealt with in the same manner.

And yet you didn't crosspost this to uk.rec.cyclists... tut. ;-)

 

Then you're using the wrong bike then! I have to say the best bike I've
found for a commute into London is a Megascoot like a Burgman 400 with
an added top box. It's fast enough to keep up on the dual carriageways
outside London while still easy to filter. And the ample luggage space
means I can transform from greasy biker into city gent with a laptop bag
in under 3 minutes.

Yup, this is a problem especially when there's not enough bike parking
space. And made worse by Westminster's charging. If we end up with every
council having it's own parking scheme its going to be a nightmare if
your life involves moving and parking between boroughs during the day.

 

There's a view that a charge is reasonable *if* security devices are
provided and a reasonable attempt is made to combat theft via CCTV or
whatever, and if not it should be free since there's very little running
costs in a few lines on the road. I can sympathise with this. But the
problem with demanding security is that it costs money and inevitably
leads to a Westminster style blanket charge without actually increasing
security.

So OK. Perhaps we should be demanding paid parking where there is
security and free elsewhere. But it's a slippery slope.

One thing Westminster have done is to put M/C spaces into their council
run car parks. I wonder how long it will be before a bike is stolen from
one of them.

 

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:48:25

When I used to live in London, I remember thinking that there ought to
be just two parking regimes.
1) Equivalent of red route or double yellows. Don't park here. Don't
even think of parking here. No waiting. no deliveries. If we find your
car here we'll tow it, lock it up for 4 weeks, throw away the key and
then crush it. With a rapid response SWAT squad of collection lorries to
clear the vehicles as fast as possible.
2) Park wherever and whenever for free

But then I watched the street I was in being converted from houses into
flats each of which ended up with two cars. We went from plenty of
parking space to double parking in about 7 years.

 

The majority of tax raised by Westminster is corporate. It's those
corporates who lose out either because their staff find it harder and
harder to get to work, or it's their customers who just don't bother
coming into Westminster any more.

 

I'm not holding anything. I'm not organising the protest, just attending
and trying to promote it.

I know its tilting at windmills. I know there's only a slim chance it
will have any effect. But rolling over and letting them screw you won't
have any effect either. Les Motards Encolere have succeeded in similar
protests in Paris. Why is it impossible in London?

We got 50 at the first event, 200 at the second. Maybe we can get 800 at
the third. 24th October. Probably lunchtime at Hyde Park Corner.

 

I'll offer a qualified agreement here. If you live in London, fairly
near to a train or tube station, and you need to head /in/ to
London, then public transport does beat commuting by bike, both on
time and convenience (and if you're running a largish bike) and cost.

*however*, if you need to go /across/ London, it's not nearly as
convenient.

 

Public transport in London is definitely quicker, it just isn't as
convenient.

 

I'm not foaming at the mouth as such - I'm just stating my opinion on
the overall state of things.

We're living in a country now whereby the administration appears to be
looking for more and more excuses to fine / control / monitor us.

I personally don't like living under such terms and I'm therefore now
openly questioning it, and I don't see why it is that so many seem to
just accept its the way it is or don't seem to be able to get a proper
view of the bigger picture.

Wake up!

So I've noticed.

Are you deliberately holding back, or are you just more chilled in
general now?

 

Its definitions he wants now. Unsubstantiated opinion not good enough
for him, eh?

Oh, I don't know. I do know that as an impatient introvert, I hate
queuing. I hate being squashed close to other people. I hate having to
think about timetables. I hate it when timetables turn out to be wrong.
I hate it when people try and blow up my bit of public transport. I like
the freedom of being able to stay late or leave when I feel like it. I
hate night buses. I hate the Northern Line.

But I would like to be able to get legless occasionally and still get
home.

I guess that's all pretty common among people who choose to commute by
M/C.

In my darker moments, I've thought that if I have a M/C with me I'll
still be able to get out of the city when the axe falls, the reds decide
to push the button, the Thames barrier breaks down or there's an
outbreak of Zombies. But that's just ridiculous paranoia from watching
too many bad SciFi movies.

 

I found it overcrowded the last few times I had the misfortune to need
to use it.

In the end I started getting a mainline train to the station nearest
to where I was going for the day, and just walked the rest of the way
rather than struggling onto an overcrowded tube.

If you do this, you soon realise the main bits of Central London
aren't really that far apart at all, and I started to actually quite
enjoy the walk.

 

Or there's a bus or tube strike.

 

281 miles according to google maps, or an average of 56.2 miles per
hour, and you call that 'good' ?

By contrast, Paris to Lyon is =~ 290 miles, and it takes one hour and
fifty-seven minutes by train. Roughly 145 miles per hour on average.

_That_ is 'pretty good public transport'.

But don't worry, you 'don't read' me, and so won't see this. Just slag
off the Jews a bit more, and pretend that all is well.

D.

 

And what do you do when you've woken up then?

 

Indeed. I only use it out of hours, i.e. after 9.30am because it's a lot
less crowded and after 10 it's almost roomy! It's good for places that
have no parking nearby or want £1 for each ten or fifteen minutes and by
Oyster it's a lot cheaper but then I do live here so suffer it when I
have to.

It's normally only about a ten minute walk between tube stations.

Walking's good and has may benefits. I've even bought myself a
waterproof coat and a brolly so I can go to the local supermarkets
without driving. It's also a good flashers' mac.

 

It's normally only about a ten minute walk between tube stations.[/QUOTE]

One of the good things about here (sort of offsetting the instauration
of a police state and the proliferation of Arabs), is that one is rarely
more than two hundred metres from a métro stop. That, plus a yearly
season ticket (£53.08 per month for 3 zones, half of which is refunded
by the Ministry of Education) [1] means that one can hop on and off the
métro, buses whatever, and one just presses the pass onto the top of the
turnstile.

Thank **** that all other things considered, we still have a green mayor
who sticks the occasional spanner in the works of the disgusting pigshit
in the Élysée Palace.

Y.

[1] http://coughlan.fr/integrale.jpg

 

I'm not sure anyone whose target of choice within this perilous state
of affairs is the introduction of parking charges for motorcycles can
claim to have the bigger picture clearly in view.

 

I like walking in cities (as long as the weather's OK, of course).
Spent three and a half hours wandering around Dalian in China on
Saturday. Even strolling slowly, you cover ground, and it's great for
people-watching, too.

 

I'd disagree. That's £270 for a return trip. OK, it's relatively fast,
but I've just paid under £100 for a return British Airways flight to
Barcelona, FFS.

Or you could have bought a car for £150-200, spent the balance on
petrol, and sold it for scrap when (if?) you got home...

Trouble is that rail fares vary *hugely* according to time of day,
dates, phases of the moon, whatever.