Sept 28. London Demo against Westminster Council M/C parking charges

Hanover Square W1, 10:30am Sunday 28th September Details here
http://forum.notobikeparkingfees.com

Motorcyclists in London face some challenges; staying out of the
congestion charge; being allowed to ride in bus lanes, lack of parking
space; lack of secure parking. But now Westminster council have added a
new one by introducing a trial scheme to charge for M/C parking. The
justification is increased parking space and security devices. They have
added some spaces but the security devices are only being tested in a
couple of residents only bays. The charging scheme involves a broken
system of pre-registering, dealing with call centres and mobile phone
texting. Make no mistake about it, this is a revenue generation scheme
with a stated and planned pay back in under 2 years. And the big part of
the revenue is not from the £1.50 per day charge but the £60/120 fines.
And you can be sure that if it's allowed to succeed, the price will go
up and it will be adopted by other councils in London.

So please come and support the demo. If nothing else it's an excuse to
stand around talking about bikes! And then go and write to the council
and if you can, hand deliver the letter and get a signature for it.

 

I'll come along. Fucking scandalous. I had to pay in Westminster a couple of
weeks ago and I couldn't believe it. They even have an 08 number, which
doesn't come out of my mobile contract inclusive minutes. What about people
without mobiles / credit cards / whatever? <fx: head explodes with anger>

 

Poor people?

**** 'em.

 

Reminder

Demo against Westminster Council m/c parking charges
Hanover Square W1, 10:30am Sunday 28th September Details here
http://forum.notobikeparkingfees.com

 

Might see you there then.

 

Why should I give a flying **** if you have to pay to park your
motorbike in London?

 

Have you found the delete key on your PC yet?

 

As it turns out that was a bit of a craic. Had a little ride out with
maybe 200 bikes and brought Regent street and Oxford st to a standstill
for 15 minutes.

 

Maybe you shouldn't... but just as the congestion charge is, IIRC, due
to be put into place in other major cities in the UK in the near
future, this is something that is likely to set a precedent for other
councils to follow.

So whilst it doesn't affect you directly at the present, (assuming you
never have cause to ride into London and park of course), what follows
may do, and yes, I can fully appreciate in the grand scheme of things
it's something that's pretty insignificant and perhaps not worthy of
ranting about, but then sometimes it's the little things that all add
up to one big pile of steaming shit?

 

It's the thin end of the wedge! Fancy expecting motorcyclists to pay for
parking. It's obvious that their parking should be subsidized by all the
local council tax payers.

 

You mean, like the bacon-slicing of civil liberties? Surely not.

 

We live in the UK, with its fair and just society and values,
remember... not some sweaty repressive dictatorship.

 

And how exactly is their parking subsidised by local council tax
payers?

Painting a few white lines once in a blue moon doesn't cost that much,
and FWIW, the bays that were set up outside the office in Covent
Garden I worked out of up until March this year, weren't existing,
revenue generating car bays they'd converted, either.

Where there are now bays, there were double yellows previously.

 

So painting lines is free? And just because you cite an example of where
they found extra space doesn't mean they are all like that. And if there
are fewer cars and more bikes coming in their revenue is dropping anyway.

I just don't see any logic in suggesting cars should pay but bikes should be
exempt. Even the argument that we should be encouraging people out of cars
doesn't stand up because bike parking is cheaper than car parking.

 

No, but I'm pretty damn sure the cost of doing that is nowhere near
the amount of revenue they'll generate from charging for the spaces
concerned.

Is it?

Only, the last time I looked, the cuntgestion charge was payable to
TFL, and not City of Westminster cuntcil... or are you referring to
parking tickets etc, in which case I have no sympathy.

A logic which has, up until now, worked fine?

And so it should be - a bike takes up far less space than a car, ergo
they can probably get five for the price of one, so to speak, maybe
more depending on how big the bay concerned is.

 

Painting the lines isn't the only cost involved but even if it is, you are
paying for a service that is provide by the council and they can reasonably
make a profit from it to the benefit of local residents.

Well if it encourages people out of cars onto bikes it will.

Where did congestion charge and parking tickets come into it. We are talking
about paying to park.

So? Just because something's always been that way doesn't make it right.

Exactly. So you are agreeing with me that there isn't an argument for bikes
to be free?

The only reason for this campaign seems to be a narrow self interest in not
wanting to pay. I can see that you might not want to start paying after
years of not having to but that really isn't enough for me. I look at the
case on its merits.

 

It's a public road, something which you pay VED to use, funnily
enough.

See below regarding the demand on car bays...

They're still factors - have you spent any time in Central London
lately?

I suspect not - car bays are still oversubscribed as a rule from what
I've seen, and most of the additional bike bays around Covent Garden
at least, are new bays, not converted existing car bays.

This is merely a case of trying to generate more money, not cover
losses.

So no need to change it, then... unless you're looking to screw as
much money as possible from your captive audience who can of course
vote with their feet and go by public transport... only, the screws
have been turned on that a fair bit in the last couple of years as
well, cost wise.

Or wrong.

No, I'm not agreeing with you at all I'm afraid.

I can see exactly why the council are doing it - to generate *more*
income for their coffers. And then there's the way you pay to
consider as well - you can't use cash.

You have to pay by way of something which is almost certainly
registered to you.

Think a bit before replying to that one.

No, well... that's your perogative. It doesn't mean you're right
though.

FWIW, I don't use the bays concerned... I have no real self interest
at present in what is happening in Westminster, I have a real interest
in the precedent that is being set.

Which are in your opinion?

In mine, the council are quids in and have more of an idea of who it
is, is wandering their streets - people who happen to rely on a bike
to get around are out of pocket... never mind the extra they're paying
in fuel duty of late.

 

I spend lots of time in Central London. I think anything that can be done to
discourage cars and bikes into the centre is a good thing. I wouldn't dream
of taking my bike in and prefer to use the train.

I don't understand what the problem is with councils generating money. Any
money they make on parking charges is money that local residents
don't have to pay,

As I said, I don't see a problem with councils generating money from
parking. The logic is no different than that for chargingh cars.

Indeed. We are simply agreeing to disagree.

I agree with you on that point. I'm completely against the new system of
paying.

As stated above. I have no problem with councils profiting from parking. If
you accept cars should pay it is hard to argue that other forms of transport
shouldn't.

By the "council" being "quids in" you mean the local residents. The money
reduces their liability. The fuel duty issue is unrelated and has nothing
to do with the council. Nobody wants to have to pay more but not charging
bikes for parking means the council will charge local residents more council
tax.

 

Maybe I should have read a bit further before posting my reply.

 

If I want to go into London I use the train and the same can be said
about most major cities.

I'd imagine that the residents of Westminster would sooner that the
council raised cash for bike parking bays by charging for their use
rather than making the residents pay for them via their council tax
bills. I know that's the view I'd be taking if I lived there.