Self Representation in a Crown Court

Sounds extraordinary - how on earth did it get to the Crown Court? Is it for
trial or just for sentence?

Don't forget - you won't be representing your friend, you'll be representing
the Queen; a prosecutor is not partisan and is expected only to lay facts
properly before the court and, if asked, to make properly informed
submissions on law. A prosecutor doesn't press for a conviction.

Even solicitors don't have full rights of audience there. Unless it's a
guilty plea I think you will find the CPS will be asked to take it over -
and just kill the prosecution if they don't think it has a proper chance of
success (eg. there are gaps in the evidence, if not professionally
prepared).

Tim Caton
CBF1000

 

Further to that, is it Queen's Bench, Chancery or Family Division?
Enquiring minds and all that, but you need to give all the information
you can... A half-decent barrister will tear you to pieces, unless
there's something you're not telling us. Is there no other way? Try
some alternative method of resolving your other party's dispute if you
haven't already; judges like that sort of thing. If you hold out the
hand of friendship and they shit on it, it'll go heavily in your
favour with the judge.

 

Blimey, there's a blast from the past. Hi, Tim. And how long have you
had that CBF???

 

message

Hi mate - are you still getting to Kempton these days? I only go
infrequently now.

Got the CBF in July from Dobles (usual horror stories). Nice machine in the
dry but the back-end is a bit prone to slither in the wet; the headlight(s)
are rather all over the place and (with fuel injection etc) only a dealer
can maintain it ...

Take care -

Tim

 

Agreed that a representative who *cannot speak for you in court* is
better than no help and could feed you all the questions to ask, but
that is not the same as a good advocate, qualified or not.

So can you point us to a source that actually forbids direct
representation of another in a court of law unless legally qualified?

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Still go, but haven't had a pitch there for a couple of years.

Ah, do tell.....

 

Pete Fisher () gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

If a non-qualified-lawyer *IS* allowed to represent somebody else, the
whole concept of a Mackenzie friend would be redundant, wouldn't it?

<points to "AIUI">

 

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:46:04 +0000,

Ah. You're no relation to the incongruously plummy-voiced wild-haired
geezer in the oily raincoat outside the gate, then? The one that
shouts "Gaskets! Get one's lovely gaskets here! Bottle of claret
each, guv'nor, and one is cutting one's own throat at that!"

Obviously not.

 

Fair enough. Trick question really as I think you will find it is
permitted in County Court, particularly in respect of small claims.
Local Authority officers (not legally qualified) also have 'rights of
audience' in some cases in County Court.

As to Crown Court you are probably right, although the 'Mackenzie
Friend' concept is generally referred to in connection with the
defendant.

This makes it all the more intriguing as to the circumstances in the
OP's case where Dan is implying that he will be prosecuting on behalf of
someone else. Perhaps has a legal qualification he has not told us
about.

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Start with the Courts and Legal Services Act of whenever (I cba to google).
When all is said and done, if the OP is trying to represent the prosecuting
party in a private prosecution in a criminal court [1], he can't and I'm
pretty sure the Judge will not turn a blind eye. He can be an assistant to
the party prosecuting the action but as the prosecuting party, I wouldn't
expect much sympathy.

Anyway, if this is so serious, why haven't the CPS prosecuted the said
defendant?

[1] Unless the OP is so confused that what he is in fact talking about is a
civil action in the County Court. And if he is that confused, he really
really ought to step out now - in the best interests of his friends. They'll
be better off without him.

 

I refer you to my reference to my sneaky trick question up there ^^^^^^

The more I think about it the more I suspect a County Court action is
what is being talked about.

I already knew about the County Court situation and IIRC some
Magistrates' Court prosecutions are taken by lay prosecutors.

No doubt the answers are in here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1990/Ukpga_19900041_en_1.htm

 

Just had a quick look at the law society sight , Dan will not be
allowed to represent his friend , he can be a makenzie freind if his
freind wishes however what he does will be extremly limited and at the
whim of the judge

--

 

I suspect his clients are his neighbours, and the case involves the
family of oriental extraction one door down.

 

Is this the ongoing neighbour thing?

Run away, run away now. If the other side can afford legal
representation and you're going in with no legal experience then
you'll be a liability not an asset.

 

I suspect his clients are his neighbours, and the case involves the
family of oriental extraction one door down.
[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Sounds as if it could be a neighbour nuisance case. My 'specialist
subject' if noise is involved.

Perhaps Dan would like to email me.

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

DR coughed up:

All other routes have been exhausted.
It's shit or bust time.

--
Dan L

http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

 

Wtf are you talking about? The County Court doesn't have those divisons.
They are divisions of the High Court. And I doubt the OP's neighbour dispute
is HC territory.

Try

Bollocks. If you tell a judge in a trial about settlement discussions, he
may well have to withdraw, depending on what he is told. Such issues are
relevant only to costs, and are usually determined after the trial.

 

coughed up:

Many thanks for this, and indeed to everyone else who has pitched in. I
may well take you up on your kind offer of email advice Pete.

The situation is still a little unclear to me, although this should
become clearer over the next few days.

As I said before, I don't want to have to do this, but have been asked
to and am damned if I'll see a perfectly decent couple lose everything
because of the shortcomings of the law to date.

I will post no more about this for now, but will hoefully be able to
report a favourable outcome in the near future.


--
Dan L

http://thebikeshed.spaces.live.com/
1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr

BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005/6)
X-FOT#000
DIAABTCOD #26
BOMB#18 (slow)
OMF#11

 

Hmm... If you really mean High Court, then it's QBD. You're seriously
up against it, mate. County Court would be more likely AFAIK, which
is a different thing entirely, and could be a lot easier for you. Are
you sure you can't get help from your local Community Law Centre or
CAB? Non-qualified representation just doesn't work.

 

Dan - do be clear on one thing: if your people can't afford lawyers they
can't afford you either. If you "represent" them in any form of civil court
hearing and make a horlics of it (which must be odds on, against
professional opposition) your people will end up being ordered to pay your
opponent's costs. You could also be liable as well, in some situations.

Take care -

Tim Caton
CBF1000