Scooter Soldering Kit Battery

Very BAD idea. Plumbers flux is acid based and that is not what you want
on wires.

Ian Singer
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Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049774

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/CAIG-LABORATORIES-RSF-R80-2-/200-385

 

It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have to
scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and do the
job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the strands
you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined strands off
and start all over again!

 

soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered with
rosin flux,if that would be better?

 

Always remember to slide a piece of shrink wrap up the wire BEFORE starting.
That's the 1st step in a clean solder joint, All metal must be clean and
bright, Then flux and heat to temp, Tinning sometimes
makes the job quicker, After feeding solder and getting a smooth flow allow
to cool before moving to avoid a cold solder joint.

 

There is a page about making your own shunt at http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/shunt.html

Most of battery chemistry eludes me but I read somewhere that a quick casual test for sulphation is to put a charger on the battery for a short time (I'm guessing a minute or so), take the charger off - open-circuit battery voltage of 13V or higher is suggestive of severe sulphation. Have I got this right?

 

No. You can add that to the list of things that eludes you! ;-)
Try it sometime with a healthy, brand new battery.

 

Well, if one had just introduced water and then acid, or the mix that comes with a MF, to a brand-new battery, I doubt if one would immediately test for sulphation.

Grateful if you could send the list, I've misplaced my copy.

 

|>There is a page about making your own shunt at http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/shunt.html
|>
|>Most of battery chemistry eludes me but I read somewhere that a quick casual test for sulphation is to put a charger on the battery for a short time (I'm guessing a minute or so), take the charger off - open-circuit battery voltage of 13V or higher is suggestive of severe sulphation. Have I got this right?

Seems Backwards..

Actually 13 volts after 1/2 hour is pretty good, but 12.01 volts
after a full charge suggests hard and soft sulphation and should be
replaced...

Hard Sulphation is permanent, but a low VRLA SLA battery is just
sulphation crawling up the sides of the battery cell......

When you charge the battery, the Sulphation, drops off the cell
walls, and mixes to a slight boil.......in an AGM or acid starved pr hybrid,
the sulphation is just recombined to the electrical chemistry.

An AGM has less resistance so it may charge quicker than a wet
celled MF, but what really matters is that if it (MF) charges real quick,
and doesn't heat up it's real good....
--
Robert LaCasse
514 Alexander Street, #20
Vancouver, British Columbia
V6A1C7, Canada
604/255-8787
WWW>> http://conspiracy.at/r_lacasse

 

Really? Are you SURE about that? 'cause I've been using them since the
early 90's and have never "Burnt the plastic around the soldering
area" over heated some wire that I was working on? Sure, do that with
an electric one also...who hasn't?

You sure don't know what you are talking about that's for damn sure.
But hey do it the hard way, if that's what you want. I mean what would
I know, just because I've done if for a long damn time.

 

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.

 

OK, so you were a precocious 10 year old kid. Too bad you haven't
matured...

 

Sigh! ..........leaving nothing to the imagination..........
I intended "healthy" to mean fully charged, so...........

If one connects a charger to a fully charged brand new (or otherwise in good
working condition) "conventional" lead acid battery for a few minutes (or
you leave it connected until it becomes fully charged), a no-load voltmeter
reading WILL be slightly above 12.6V for a while and that is perfectly
normal and does NOT indicate sulphation. Clear ??

 

While charging a lead acid battery, the voltage may rise as high as 15
volts, but that high charge will dissipate as the battery rests over
the next half an hour.

A resting voltage of 12.5~12.8 volts doesn't necesarily indicate that
an older battery is necessarily in good condition. You can have the
correct voltage and the specific gravity of the electrolyte can be
correct, but the older battery may still be sulfated and the *surface
charge* will dissipate as soon as a load is applied.

In the early days of batteries, all the positive and negative plates
were made of sheet metal and the sheet metal wasn't porous, so any
charge the battery acquired was a *surface charge*

Stationary batteries used for emergency power supply at electric power
grid distribution stations still use batteries with massive plates.

But such a battery is far too large to transport in a vehicle for
starting it. It would be as big as the vehicle.

Automotive batteries have lead plates filled with porous *spongy
lead*. If such a battery is allowed to discharge and isn't immediately
recharged, sulfur from the
electrolyte plates out on the spongy lead and the electrolyte turns
into water.

Further attempts to charge the battery fail as the hardened lead
sulfate on the outside of the spongy lead prevents the weakened
electrolyte to penetrate the plate.

 

A sulphated battery won't take any charge current from a regular charger and
if it produces any terminal voltage at all it will have a high internal
resistance, so the voltage will collapse under any load at all.

Some fancy electronic chargers (like the Optimate) can detect a sulphated
battery and supply a current limited treatment voltage of up to 20 or 30V
but they won't save a severely sulphated battery.

You can get by on the cheap by connecting a bridge rectifier in series with
the neutral lead of a low wattage mains load to provide current limited DC
for the battery but it can be pretty dangerous on a badly sulphated battery
as the terminal voltage could rise to the full mains (peak) voltage, so
sparking inside the cell is a possibility!

Hot gas producing a blister on the side of a cell on a SLA battery I was
trying to de-sulphate persuaded me to stop doing that and buy a proper
electronic charger.

 

You're really good at twisting words aren't you - especially having snipped
all the relevant content that would have shown up your twisted rant.

With cored solder the solder is applied simultaneously with the flux - not
after the flux has burned as you mischievously suggest.

I suggest you try to find a topic you know squat about to criticise!

 

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.
--
Keith

Well I guess I've been successfully soldering things (in a wide variety of
applications) for a bit longer than you then.

In most cases its as simple as choosing the right flux for the job.

 

You are the one that said flux burns.
I am the one that said if you do it RIGHT, it does NOT burn......regardless
of the source, paste or core or flowing in a machine.

Screw you. I have probably done and supervised more solder joints in my 40
year career than you have seen or imagined.

 

and yet I'm STILL more mature and intelligent than you. I DO, I don't
need to explain.

 

agreed and acid flux is the WORST thing to use on electrical
applications.