Scooter Soldering Kit Battery

That poster might have been trying to say that you might cook a 12V iron if you put it on a 120V source (which is not exactly what you were asking about, although he's probably right that a 120V iron on a 12V source wouldn't get very hot though I doubt if it would become 'toast'). At 60W, the 12V iron has resistance of approximately 2.4 ohms and current of about 5 amps, whereas on a 120V supply the current would be about 50 amps, but with any luck a fuse or breaker would blow before the wires or element melted.

Also it's not necessary to complicate the simple picture by bringing up impedance in this case, if you ask me technocrats often complicate things more than needed - see 'Voltaire's Bastards, the Dictatorship of Reason in the West' by John Ralston Saul for other examples. Even though another poster said the resistance of the 120V iron would be 240 ohms, when obviously it would be 24 ohms, his arithmetic erred in the right direction and his basic point about not enough heat still makes sense, the same is true of light bulbs or even children who touch bald electrical connections. In this case, it's simple enough to note that the 120 V supply will produce 10 times as much current as the 12V supply when the same iron is attached or to turn it around the 12V supply will produce nearly 1/10th the current of the 120V supply (assuming the 12V battery is in decent shape, ie., has low internal resistance).

 

Oh thanks, you and he are right and I was wrong, sorry for my sloppy arithmetic. Must try to remember to keep my posts short, seems I can't do arithmetic and type at the same time. I still recommend Voltair's Bastards, though.

 

Ya beat me too it, but I'm slow thinking because I'm a senile alcohol,
suffering from syphilis, dementia, alcoholism and Lyme disease.

I type politically incorrect statements, but God will judge me and
Jesus has forgiven me.

 

�I still recommend Voltair's Bastards, though.

I think that some newsgroup denizens would do well to rely on common
sense and decency in their treatment of other users, instead of
continuously hammering them (and the topic under discussion) with
"logic".

"Voltaire's Bastards, The Doubter's Companion and The Unconscious
Civilization
His philosophical essays began with the trilogy made up of the
bestseller Voltaire's Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the
West, the polemic philosophical dictionary The Doubter's Companion: A
Dictionary of Aggressive Common Sense, and the book that grew out of
his 1995 Massey Lectures, The Unconscious Civilization. The last won
the 1996 Governor General's Award for Non-Fiction Literature.

"These books deal with themes such as the dictatorship of reason
unbalanced by other human qualities, how it can be used for any ends
especially in a directionless state that rewards the pursuit of power
for power's sake. He argues that this leads to deformations of thought
such as ideology promoted as truth; the rational but anti-democratic
structures of corporatism, by which he means the worship of small
groups; and the use of language and expertise to mask a practical
understanding of the harm this causes, and what else our society might
do. He argues that the rise of individualism with no regard for the
role of society has not created greater individual autonomy and self-
determination, as was once hoped, but isolation and alienation. He
calls for a pursuit of a more humanist ideal in which reason is
balanced with other human mental capacities such as common sense,
ethics, intuition, creativity, and memory, for the sake of the common
good, and he discusses the importance of unfettered language and
practical democracy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R...7s_Companion_and_The_Unconscious_Civilization

 

But God and Jesus keep answering me when I talk to them.

Maybe your imaginary friend is Satan, telling his usual lies?

 

Scientists and engineers often go to the other extreme. They get tired
of logic and start playing word games, punning, or quoting dialogue
from Monty Python movies or Hitchhiker's Guide, and that impedes
information exchange as much as if they insisted on totally logical
advice that fits their
exact perception of whatever problem is under discussion.

 

no, that would be my manager at work.

 

Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

 

|>paul c wrote:
|>
|> Even
|>> though another poster said the resistance of the 120V iron would be 240
|>> ohms, when obviously it would be 24 ohms, his arithmetic erred in the
|>
|>No, *you're* wrong. They were talking about a 120V, 60W iron.
|>
|>60W = 120V * 0.5A
|>
|>R = E / I = 120V / 0.5A = 240 Ohms.
|>
|>

Right, but the proof is in the pudding (practical test)...I
remember Paul "volunteering" to do the (practical test) in Message-ID:
<Ob6kl.10804$Db2.1638@edtnps83>, but noone really likes to take a chance on
toasting an "iron"....

I read it all as a WATT reference:
Mains Outlets:

American 120v x 1.5a=180watts
Occident 240v x .75=180 watts

Same watts, but different effect due to the amp impulses, like
toasting a $100 electric shaver...or not much effect.

My battery 12x8 = 100watts

The battery seems a bit woosy compared to the American 120v x
1.5a=180watts outlet 120v/60w soldering iron.....

 

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:37:53 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"

|>>         I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
|>> 12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
|>> other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????
|>
|>Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

 

|>Bob wrote:
|>...
|>> m/c tech??? not much, but I have experienced engine cutouts when hot
|>> of cold (engine Etc...) when I exit my parking lot's automatic door
|>> opener.....you know the ones with a rubber hose that activates the winch
|>> door opener from the 2 reflectors on each side of the door, remote
|>> clickers....
|>>
|>> My guess is that there is some interference from the Door Opening
|>> sensors and anything from the ECU/ECM ....onward...cdi? rectifier?
|>>
|>> The fact is the engine cuts out just past the Garage/Parkade Winch
|>> Door reflectors and the Winch Door comes down like a Guillotine unless I
|>> reboot or paddle it out of the way...
|>>
|>> It doesn't happen every time but is a well known problem with the
|>> Majesty and a lot of them were recalled for a new ECU, but most of these
|>> were in Australia and there is no reply from Yamaha concerning this
|>> problem...
|>
|>Bob, for all I know you are right, but I see other web references to YP400 stalling, such as corroded fuel pump connectors. One's own riding pattern is often hard to isolate from certain problems, reminds me of a (probably phony) tale of the biologist who clapped his hands and the frog jumped - he then amputated the frog's legs one by one, clapping after each cut - the frog kept jumping until the last leg came off and the conclusion was that cutting all the legs off made the frog deaf.

Here is the latest letter I sent to Yamaha on that:


Dear Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd. M/Cycle/Scooter Advisors.

To:
Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd.
480 Gordon Baker Road
Toronto, ON
M2H 3B4
Fax: (416) 491-3122
E-mail:
Attention: Privacy Officer and National Manager, Compliance

RE: Yamaha "Majesty" YP400TS

I have experienced engine cutouts when hot or cold
(engine Etc...) when I exit my parking lot's automatic door opener.....you
know the ones with a rubber hose that activates the winch door opener from
the 2 reflectors on each side of the door, remote clickers....it also
embarrassingly STALLS at heavy intersections *This has been a noted
ongoing problem with the Yamaha Majesty ECU recalls.*

My educated guess is that there is some interference from
the FCC approved Door Operating sensors and anything from the ECU/ECM
.....onward...cdi? rectifier?*This has been a noted ongoing problem with
the Yamaha Majesty ECU recalls.*

The fact is the *engine cuts out* just past the
Garage/Parkade Winch Door reflectors and the Winch Door comes down like a
**Guillotine** unless I restart/reboot or ^if it can't restart fast enough,
I have to paddle it out of the way, before it cuts the Yamaha YP400TS
scooter in half...*This has been a noted ongoing problem with the Yamaha
Majesty YP400TS ECU recalls.*

It doesn't happen every time but is a well known problem
with the Majesty and a lot of them were recalled for a new ECU, but most of
these were in Australia and there is no reply from Yamaha Motor Canada Ltd.
concerning this problem...

Keeping on mind the Yamaha Majesty YP400TS is a single
cylinder with those single cylinder characteristics, but the "throttle
blurb" cutouts only happen (at idle) were there are lot's of
electrical/electronic interferences like (major intersection lightings),
were the YP400TS ECU cuts the motor out......

The Scooter was purchased at:

VANCOUVER YAMAHA
1768 Hastings St E,
Vancouver, BC
T: 604-251-1212 F: 604-251-5987

but they asked me to contact you!!!???

==========================================


Usually if you post from the private login site with your password, they
don't reply, so I tried the generic smtp systems...

They got the email and asked for my VIN.....I sent it already....

 

On 12 Feb 2009 09:28:46 +0100, (Hans-Christian Becker)
wrote:

|>> I read it all as a WATT reference:
|>>Mains Outlets:
|>>
|>>American 120v x 1.5a=180watts
|>>Occident 240v x .75=180 watts
|>>
|>> Same watts, but different effect due to the amp impulses, like
|>>toasting a $100 electric shaver...or not much effect.
|>
|>Seriously, that sentence makes absolutely no sense at all.
|>

Well if you set your 120v electric shaver to the 240volts setting,
it'll go awfully slow and not work right....>

|>>My battery 12x8 = 100watts
|>
|>No, your battery has a (nominal) voltage of 12 V. The current drawn from
|>the battery depends on what resistance you hook up to it. A 12 Ohm resistor
|>will give a current of 1 A, a 1.2 Ohm one 10 A, and a 0.12 Ohm one will
|>draw on the order of 100 A, depending on the internal resistance of your
|>battery.

Internal resistance of a battery??...all I know is that AGM MF batteries
and their Hybrids, have MUCH less Resistance than VRLA Wet SLA MFs.....and
I'm using a "GS/Yuasa" VRLA Wet SLA MF.

I'm not very good at measuring VOMs on an open circuit Battery, you
can't do that with MMspringers or DVMs...it's not healthy....we all know
that, and we've all done it at least once..by accident???

 

|>Bob wrote:
|>...
|>> m/c tech??? not much, but I have experienced engine cutouts when hot
|>> of cold (engine Etc...) when I exit my parking lot's automatic door
|>> opener.....you know the ones with a rubber hose that activates the winch
|>> door opener from the 2 reflectors on each side of the door, remote
|>> clickers....
|>>
|>> My guess is that there is some interference from the Door Opening
|>> sensors and anything from the ECU/ECM ....onward...cdi? rectifier?
|>>
|>> The fact is the engine cuts out just past the Garage/Parkade Winch
|>> Door reflectors and the Winch Door comes down like a Guillotine unless I
|>> reboot or paddle it out of the way...
|>>
|>> It doesn't happen every time but is a well known problem with the
|>> Majesty and a lot of them were recalled for a new ECU, but most of these
|>> were in Australia and there is no reply from Yamaha concerning this
|>> problem...
|>
|>Bob, for all I know you are right, but I see other web references to YP400 stalling, such as corroded fuel pump connectors. One's own riding pattern is often hard to isolate from certain problems, reminds me of a (probably phony) tale of the biologist who clapped his hands and the frog jumped - he then amputated the frog's legs one by one, clapping after each cut - the frog kept jumping until the last leg came off and the conclusion was that cutting all the legs off made the frog deaf.

|>temporarily block or cover one set of sensors, then the same with the other
|>sensors. I imagine you'd have to be very careful with that.
|>

I can block pretty much all of the crucial ones from the overhead
interference from Signal Lights at intersections, but the IR from the
Garage Door is from the side, and it only affects motorcycles, because cars
have a metal body....as simple as that..

The garage door RF interferes with the Crankshaft position sensor,
the ISC, and other air intake sensors, judging by were it stalls on the RF
CROSSING..........
BUT..........the ECU/ECM processor is supposed to record an error code for
that stuff and as far as I can see the only time it may not record the
error is when the ECU/ECM Processor has a difficulty accessing it's own
EEPROM....

That Garage door is an old system, but all the others are newer and
don't affect me at all since the use more IR/Photo sensors....

 

|>
|>|>Bob wrote:
|>|>...
|>|>> m/c tech??? not much, but I have experienced engine cutouts when hot
|>|>> of cold (engine Etc...) when I exit my parking lot's automatic door
|>|>> opener.....you know the ones with a rubber hose that activates the winch
|>|>> door opener from the 2 reflectors on each side of the door, remote
|>|>> clickers....
|>|>>
|>|>> My guess is that there is some interference from the Door Opening
|>|>> sensors and anything from the ECU/ECM ....onward...cdi? rectifier?
|>|>>
|>|>> The fact is the engine cuts out just past the Garage/Parkade Winch
|>|>> Door reflectors and the Winch Door comes down like a Guillotine unless I
|>|>> reboot or paddle it out of the way...
|>|>>
|>|>> It doesn't happen every time but is a well known problem with the
|>|>> Majesty and a lot of them were recalled for a new ECU, but most of these
|>|>> were in Australia and there is no reply from Yamaha concerning this
|>|>> problem...
|>|>
|>|>Bob, for all I know you are right, but I see other web references to YP400 stalling, such as corroded fuel pump connectors. One's own riding pattern is often hard to isolate from certain problems, reminds me of a (probably phony) tale of the biologist who clapped his hands and the frog jumped - he then amputated the frog's legs one by one, clapping after each cut - the frog kept jumping until the last leg came off and the conclusion was that cutting all the legs off made the frog deaf.
|>
|>>If possible, and with permission for testing purposes, I'd try to
|>|>temporarily block or cover one set of sensors, then the same with the other
|>|>sensors. I imagine you'd have to be very careful with that.
|>|>
|>
|> I can block pretty much all of the crucial ones from the overhead
|>interference from Signal Lights at intersections, but the RF from the
|>Garage Door is from the side, and it only affects motorcycles, because cars
|>have a metal body....as simple as that..
|>
|> The garage door RF interferes with the Crankshaft position sensor,
|>the ISC, and other air intake sensors, judging by were it stalls on the RF
|>CROSSING..........
|>BUT..........the ECU/ECM processor is supposed to record an error code for
|>that stuff and as far as I can see the only time it may not record the
|>error is when the ECU/ECM Processor has a difficulty accessing it's own
|>EEPROM....
|>
|> That Garage door is an old system, but all the others are newer and
|>don't affect me at all since the use more IR/Photo sensors....

The only fix there usually is, is to raise the idle "ISC" speed,
and the ECU/ECM doesn't do that, as a matter of fact unlike most things of
the ECU concerns, the IDLE SPEED is the only thing that CAN'T be Changed...

 

|>R. LaCasse wrote:
|>
|>> My educated guess is that there is some interference from
|>......................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|>
|>http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
|>
|>Justin Kruger and David Dunning, "Unskilled and Unaware of It:
|>How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to
|>Inflated Self-Assessments". Journal of Personality and Social
|>Psychology 1999, Vol. 77, No. 6. 1121-1134

Dat was Dumb, lemon juice disguise???

I dumped most of those Philosophy of Philosophy and the Philosophy
of Psychology courses down my magasy/nutzcuh/john/loo in
1965....Scarborough College/UofT....
I got an Ms.D. instead, Tensyn Giatso is still willing to learn
from me...

So remember Internal Battery Resistance is just CCA......this is
all beginning to make sense, and it all began with a 120v/60w Soldering
Iron theory.............

The 120v Soldering Iron has a Resistor and a 60w transformer so it
should be safe...but nobody wants to try it physically.......the all mighty
dollar sux.....

 

|>And this is a typical soldering iron where the resistive heating element
|>is directly driven by 120VAC:
|>
|>http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103037268

Ok this one has 2 capacitors....right....

1] Circular "ceramic"
1] Square with a yellow ribbon that looks like a transformer...right...

 

I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the SHUT
THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good for one
or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure that
out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable parts........and
once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to a maintenance level,
there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

 

I doubt that garage door RF affects *anything* that is grounded to the
engine block.

But you could cover the wires going to the sensor with aluminum foil
and attach the aluminum foil to the engine block and see what happens.

If that solves the problem, buy youself some wire mesh shielding from
an electronic supply company and slide it over the affected cable.

The wire mesh can probably be expanded to side over most small
electrical connectors.

 

The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than solder
with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using it.

 

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.