SBK Rules

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Racing' started by Julian Bond, Apr 29, 2005.

  1. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    Two things of note. It seems that everyone in WSB is running some kind
    of traction control but refusing to talk about it. And it seems to be
    generally buried in the ECU where it's going to be extremely hard to
    ferret out. Traction control is banned in AMA (right?) but surely AMA
    and SBK Suzukis are running the same ECU? Troy Corser has admitted
    running traction control while Mat can't say anything.

    Secondly, Yamaha with Emmett in the UK have made a jump in performance
    this year after experimenting with firing orders. And WSB has just
    banned big bang, altered 1000-4 firing orders.

    Now both of these look to me like technical areas where racing could
    improve the breed and lead directly to better road bikes. Is this being
    handled right?
     
    Julian Bond, Apr 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Julian Bond

    Alexey Guest

    Secondly, Yamaha with Emmett in the UK have made a jump in
    performance
    You can't experiment with firing order with ECU alone. You need to
    modify camshafts for that.
     
    Alexey, May 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. And or crank shaft.

    /MBE
     
    Morten Becker-Eriksen, May 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Not necessary. Certainly not for an inline four. Probably not
    for a V4 (dep. on whether rods are sharing crank pins).

    To modify a four-pulse inline four, which typically has the inner two
    and outer two pistons already moving in tandem, I leave it as an elementary
    exercise for you to figure out.
     
    Michael Sierchio, May 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Julian Bond

    Bummers Guest

    But doesn't a "big bang" 4 cylinder engine have 2 pairs of "closely"
    firing" cylinders - not a 2 pairs of simultaneously firing cylinders?
    Necessitating offsetting of the "closely firing" crank pins, cams &
    ignition timing?

    Bummers
     
    Bummers, May 2, 2005
    #5
  6. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    Allegedly, Virgin Yamaha are using stock crankshaft (required by the
    rules) but are firing the pistons as 2-1-1-gap. The Motec ECU can
    already do this, so they just had to get some cams made up, and they
    were already sourcing their cams from one of the many custom engineering
    places in the UK. The exhaust tuning isn't as good, the engine makes
    less power and torque on the dyno. But it cut a second off the lap
    times. Go figure.
     
    Julian Bond, May 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Julian Bond

    Alexey Guest

    That's easy. It's probably just doing what a big bang config is
    supposed to do: let you get on the gas earlier with a more controlled
    slide, so you're simply on the gas more than the guy who might be
    putting out a tad more power. Also keep in mind that peak horsepower
    number is just one point on the dyno graph. You gotta look at the
    whole integral of the curve in usable rev range to really know the
    difference.

    Another thing that might be happening is a different ram air effect.
    Airbox pressurization is a tricky thing and lab testing does not always
    produce the full picture. I remember reading an article on what
    happens in stock airboxes as far as big twins vs fours. The twins were
    having a harder time because of "the big gulp" effect which was causing
    the airbox pressure to go wildly up and down, whereas the fours were
    "sipping" the air at a relatively smooth rate. Of course, SBK rules
    allow all kinds of airbox tinkering, as well as different cams and
    valves, so it may be that they've figured out how to use that gulp
    effect to their advantage and tap into a big-bang or big-bang-like
    motor's airbox resonance better than that of a screamer.
     
    Alexey, May 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Julian Bond

    Champ Guest

    I thought the theory behind Big Bang was well understood by now - it
    generates a series of 'microslides' at the tyre, but then has a long
    enough gap for the tyre to 'recover'. There's no need for the mumbo
    jumbo above.
     
    Champ, May 4, 2005
    #8
  9. My point exactly, it may have and undoubtedly it has been tested/used.
    I'll leave it as a more advanced exercise for Michael Sierchio to figure it
    out.

    /MBE
     
    Morten Becker-Eriksen, May 4, 2005
    #9
  10. Your thought experiment is beside the point -- is a crankshaft change
    from stock permitted by the rules? If so, there are many options. If not,
    there are still a few ways to implement a modified power pulse 4 cyl
    engine.
     
    Michael Sierchio, May 4, 2005
    #10
  11. Julian Bond

    Alexey Guest

    No kidding? Microslides? Longer time for the tire to recover? And I
    thought it was magic that let you get on the gas earlier with big bang.
    Thank for clearing that up for me.
     
    Alexey, May 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    No and Yes. Which is why Virgin-Yamaha have just messed with the
    cams/ignition to create what is probably a 2 together, one, one, gap
    firing order. You could also do 2,2,gap gap or 2, gap, 2, gap. I believe
    the first was too hard on the gears and the second didn't give enough
    benefit.

    [1]Note that I have a really hard time imagining firing orders in my
    head. So the alternatives may not make sense at all.
     
    Julian Bond, May 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Julian Bond

    Bummers Guest

    The rules say (see http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=26# ):
    2.4.6.20 Camshaft
    Camshafts may be altered or replaced from those fitted to the homologated
    motorcycle.
    2.4.6.21 Cam Sprockets or Gears
    Cam sprockets or cam gears may be altered or replaced to allow the degreeing
    of the camshafts (see also Art. 2.4.6.18).
    2.4.6.22 Crankshaft
    Crankshaft may be altered or replaced from those fitted to the homologated
    motorcycle.
    Crankshaft stroke must remain as homologated.
    Polishing or lightening is allowed.
    Balancing is allowed of the crankshaft, rods and pistons.
    SBK 71
    *1000 cc Three and Four cylinders machines:
    The following modifications are allowed to the homologated crankshaft :
    a. Bearing surfaces may be polished or a surface treatment may be applied.
    b. Balancing is allowed but only by the same method as the homologated
    crankshaft. (for example heavy metal i.e. Mallory metal inserts are not
    permitted unless they are originally specified in the homologated
    crankshaft.)
    c. Attachment of aftermarket ignition components or sensors is permitted.
    d. Balance shaft may be removed.

    The rules don't seem to say that crankshafts, cams etc *can't* have
    their components *offset*!
     
    Bummers, May 4, 2005
    #13
  14. Julian Bond

    Bummers Guest

    I have a really hard time imaging your firing order descriptions :)
     
    Bummers, May 4, 2005
    #14
  15. They don't say they can, either -- hence, a change in offset angle
    from the homolgated crank is forbidden.
     
    Michael Sierchio, May 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Well, I _think_ I saw somewhere that the new rules do specify an minimum
    angle between two cylinders firing on a modified motor. That kind of suggest
    that it might be leagal to alter the offset today.

    /MBE
     
    Morten Becker-Eriksen, May 5, 2005
    #16
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