Safe?

Actually, all of the above.

I have also experimented with reflective tapes and extra lights and some
industrial glow in the dark stick on pucks to assist I the identifying
"a-bike-is-here.

A mate is an ambo officer and gave me a set of his overalls, and the
reflective stripes on that are very effective.

Hammo

 

It'll be on its way.

I have no problems with your reference to the hearing voices, olfactory,
aural and visual hallucinations, the "imaginary friends" bit makes it sound
like a soft disease, and doesn't highlight the range of problems that a
person suffering from schizophrenia may go through.

It is hugely interesting and there a number of good papers on the topic.
Did you want some?

Yes it certainly does. No argument there.

Hammo

 

Hence the "hook, Line, sinker".

I don't consider mental ill health to be a trivial matter. Much of the
medications that people are put on have significant adverse health effects,
and whilst they control the voices, their life expectancy is decreased
significantly.

Depending on your view point, schizophrenia is more than a "single" illness.
The sub types branch off as do the treatment modalities and regimens. I
would hate to think that anyone with a mental illness could have their
illness summarised as "imaginary friends" as it trivialises the reality of
it and has the potential to allow a misunderstanding of what people go
through to become entrenched.

With that said. I am glad your friend feels comfortable with you that he can
discuss his illness in such a way.

Hammo

 

So am I. Mind you he has a wicked sense of humour at the best of times.

 

I reckon that people at the pointy end of ANYTHING are the only ones who
really ought to do what seems like "trivialisation" of a
condition/situation. The "imaginary friend" bit is seen so broadly as such a
cute, childhood defence mechanism that whenever we hear the term we think
it's kind of funny (or "soft", as you said, Hammo....)

I had a neighbour years ago who was a paranoid schizophrenic. His medication
made him feel too fucked to function properly, so he went off it. And then
his "imaginary friends" (yuk) told him his wife was a prostitute who was
trying to cheat him out of their joint properties.... and so one day he
simply turned up at the corner shop they co-owned, unloaded both barrels of
his shotgun into her face, and went to the cop shop to turn himself in,
leaving me to do the necessaries, coz they lived next door and I was close
to them (call the cops, the ambulance (too bloody late for that mate), CARRY
the large teenage daughter from the crime scene, keep the neighbourhood
vultures from raiding the shop, blah blah.)

Nothing "soft" about schizophrenia

betty

 

Probably not. Can't hurt.

Moike

 

Servant Of The Lord?

No, thats Tony.

 

Oh I'm not suffering, just busy. It's voluntary, it's not like I NEED
to do it or I'll get sacked or something.

Sounds good. By cramming a full time year in this year I should be
able to graduate this one next year

I think I'll be stopping for a bit - 2 masters will do for now.

Well that'll teach you to be in academia, won't it !!

Wot ? Riding a Kawasaki ? Go on you know you want to get into a pair
of lime green leathers !

JL

 

Ahhh, but you have what I said back to front. The christians have
their imaginary friend, they not only admit it, they're proud of their
delusions and hallucinations.

The fact that they have an imaginary friend who is going to look after
them seems to me a psychosis that is remarkably similar to some of the
symptoms of schizophrenia hence my comment 'the mental illness that is
associated with delusions and hallucinations is I believe
schizophrenia' in other words drawing a parallel that christians are
displaying some of the symptoms of a mental illness (and by
implication drawing into question their general mental health). You
and I both know that schizophrenia can range from mild to extreme,
it's hardly characterising it as "soft" to say that some of their
symptoms are similar.

I'm happy to throw to independent arbitration by those who seem to
have a strong grasp of the written word (Moike Theo for example), if
it's possibly to reasonably read what I wrote as meaning what you're
saying. I can't see it though.

It's not trivialising mental illness, quite the contrary, I think the
"hush hush don't talk about it pretend it never happens" is the utter
worst thing that can be done. Acceptance is the thing we still seems
to be unable to provide in society in general.

JL

 

Shit On The Liver.
---
Cheers

PeterC [aka MildThing]


'01 Yamaha FJR1300

www.dmcsc.org.au
http://eladesom.com.au/ulysses/
# 37181

 

? Ok. I *have* misread you. I thought you were talking about symptoms of
sz. People believing they are possessed, are gods etc. I do have several
papers on that. However, it is not purely schizophrenia that this behaviour
occurs under. Psychosis is perhaps a better term to refer to this
behaviour.

A brilliant example of a social paradigm!

The soft but was purely that I felt mental illness being characterised by an
imaginary friends made it appear very soft. I missed your subtle (or not
so) discussion of the points at hand.

See also
Faith or Delusion? At the Crossroads of Religion and Psychosis
PIERRE, JOSEPH M. MD (check your email).

Umm, feel free, but I miss read you (as above).

Yeah, I now know where the misunderstanding came from, my apologies. After
reading the above and re-reading the original. I thought it was a tad out
of your character.

Hammo

 

I'm with Hammo on this one. Religions have more to do with explaining
the unkown (why the sun goes up and down and stuff),and easing the
fear of death. Religions have, as a commonality, some form of
re-incarnation (be it rebirth of some form or somewhere to go when you
die, such as a happy hunting ground). Organised religions tend to use
fear of the unkown (and hell and damnation) as a tool for controlling
the masses.

There is a theory among some that the brain is hard wired to believe
in imaginary friends, yet apparently 80% of Swedes are atheist, which
says more about access to education, science, and information. (1)

All of the above, of course, has **** all to do with mental illnesses
and in particular schizophrenia which are vastly different things.
Having said that, there are quite a few noted religious characters
that probably did have mental illnesses and possibly schizoprhrenia.
Joan of Arc comes to mind.



(1) http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2006/1810668.htm
some interesting discourse including the reference to Swedish atheism.

 

A bus driver mate in Hobart (navy blue uniform) used to ride an ex-cop
bimmer and had a CB mounted on the old cop radio fittings. He actually
got flagged down by people thinking he was a cop.[1]

Cheers
Goaty
1. Actually, I think he was into that ...
--
_--_|\ John Lamp - in beautiful downtown Highton
/ \ IRC: DoD#:1906 Ulysses#:10185 Vulcan Nomad
\_.--._/ http://www.gorider.cjb.net/ Phone: 0409 512 254
v mailto: Fax: 03 5227 2151

Hear no Evo, See no Evo, Fear no Evo

 

They pulled out in front of you because they didn't perceive you as a
threat because you were driving a slow piece of 4x4 shit, and you
obviously ride like like an old woman too.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

I think what you're saying is roadcraft is more valuable than any of the
above. You probably don't count your close calls as close calls because
you react to them before they get that 'close' and they don't take you
by surprise.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

That's hardly surprising. People who change lanes into you or your
buffer zone are people who most haven't looked prior to doing so, so
it's fair to expect they're not going to see you no matter what you're
wearing.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

Geez, if you don't like the taste of the cow don't eat it. Tomato sauce is
designed specifically to mask the terrible taste of factory-made pies. Never
put it on a steak.

Theo

 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:21:54 +1100

I do believe that

But does hi-vis help?

I believe that most crashes require 2 mistakes, if someone makes one (not
paying attention) then if I get it right I can usually avoid the crash.
But if I get it wrong will a hi-vis vest help them not make the "didn't
really process you were there" mistake?

I think there are 3 steps to "see".

One is the physical one. If the light bounces off me and strikes their
retinas. If there's a bus or a bollard or a car pillar in the way then
they can't see me no matter how hard they look.[1] If they don't bother
to turn their head or check the mirror or if the mirror's badly adjusted
then it doesn't matter how bright the flouro is, they won't see me.

The next is the processing one. The modern landscape is full of
visual pollution so everyone piloting a vehicle has to choose what to
pay attention to. The more experienced the pilot, as in the more
time spent driving/riding, the more they have refined the system of
"pay attention to that but not that". So advertisers, who know this,
do their best to attract that attention via being 'different' - flashing,
bright colours, nekkid wimmin...

This is where I think the whole thing rests. This is the "see" that most
people mean even when they think it's the first one. Motorcycles aren't
hard to physically see (except see the pillars and mirrors comment above)
but most people haven't programmed their processor to let the vision
get up to the consciousness.

We see what we expect to see. I've had the very unsetting experience of
having my survival instincts put the brake on while the conscious mind
saw what it expected to see - nothing on a road that was very quiet and
I'd never seen a moving car in the year I'd been crossing that road.

People see what they expect to see, if they don't expect something not
car-shaped they won't see it because they have trained themselves not to.
Little kids see bikes....

So we come to exception processing. This is where the hi-vis comes in.
If the driver's mental setup is discarding "motorcycle" because it
isn't car-shaped (or cop-shaped) then maybe get yourself processed as
"something odd just caught my eye" and hope that the conscious brain
gets involved, processes it as "legit vehicle, do the right thing" and
problem averted. Quite possibly it helps if the eye is caught because
a bright scrap of colour might get a second look in the mirror whereas
a part of a motorcycle might not as it processes as "background".

This is what the advertisers do. Catch the eye.[2]

I wonder if the number of people wearing flouro is a problem? See abit
of green or orange and think "road worker, therefore ped, therefore
not somethig I have to deal with"?

Which comes to the third part of "see". The behaviour once the bike is
seen and processed. This is where you get problems with "I thought the
bike was far enough away" and "I thought there was time" and "I thought
there was room". And even "Bloody bikies think they own the road,
I showed 'im!"

Once they see the bike, will they do the right thing? Hi-vis isn't
going to help here, will it hinder? If they process as "bike" not
"ped" then maybe. There's another slight possiblity I wonder about,
which probably shows I've read too much lefty psych, that hi-vis is a
uniform worn by low ranked people. The ones who do the low class jobs.
Uniforms generally are low class, hi-vis ones definitely. Could wearing
something that marks you as low class cause a certain kind of driver to
give you less courtesy, even think that as a low class servant type *you*
should give way to *them*? Dunno....

So Hi vis as a possible chance of helping you get processed, although that
might be getting less so as more of it is about and so is filtered out.
It might also cause problems with people's reaction, either "only peds
wear that" or "only plebs wear that".

I don't think the diadvantages outweigh the advantages, but I don't
think the advantage is that much. And of course it disappears once the
sun goes down, at that point you need the roadcraft skills anyway.

So I prefer to work on the idea that I can't assume they've looked or
if they did that they've processed me, so I have to do the hard work of
not being one of the two mistakes myself. This might mean that I have
increased my chance of a crash by a small amount if hi-vis really does
get people to process me as "bike" in time and do the right thing when
they do.

I admit I prefer to do more work than look like I need hi-vis to be safe.
I dunno if that's cos I think it looks silly, cos I buy into the pleb idea,
or if I equate "hi vis vest on rider" with "scared and inexperienced"
or what.

On the other hand, I have heaps of reflec on the pushbike and am looking
for a comfortable hi-vis shirt to wear on that. I guess because my
ability to control my own destiny are much less due to lack of size and
speed compared to the cars. I can't dodge as easily and I can't control
the lane in the same way. So the exception processing seem to be of
more value.[3]

Zebee

[1] This is when I hope they realise that. If it is a bus then they
might realise it might be hiding something and be careful, if it's a
car pillar probably not.

[2] E.E. 'Doc' Smith caught this wonderfully in First Lensman. Where
the hero is in telepathic contact with his host, and while "chatting"
sees a starburst like a firework which turns into a sign "eat
Teegmee's food". He realises he saw it with his own senses, not the
ones he was sharing with his host. Because it was advertising and his
host automatically tuned it out. That was when the hero realises it's
the first thing they have in common as a species


[3] And possibly because like flashing red rear light it says
"pushbike". Helping people to process. Which means not wearing a
roadworker/labourer shirt I suppose although pushbikes are closer to
peds in speed and reaction required than they are to motorbikes so may
not be a problem.

 

I've been known to be not-nice.

No problem with the bike, did look a bit bland and boring, but the dog
looked more interesting.

Theo

 

Hammo agreeing with you? You are in trouble mate.

Theo