If I was a skilled machinist I would be looking to move to where the work actually was. Skills or no skills if there aint any money in the pot there aint any money in the pot. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
How do you get manufacturing going in a plant when there are no customers? Nobody wants the products. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
Without going down the bland "together with the Government and business, as a team, seek new investment" etc. but they do wield a lot of influence in bringing investment and providing a 'stable', skilled and predictable workforce for the said investors. Failing that I'd suggest they may call in favours - I believe the T&G are one of the biggest contributors to the Labour party and could, additionally, cause sections of the CBI untold pain. "An injury to one is an injury to all"
That is the whole intention of liberalisation of markets and the new global economy. Change it or get used to it.
How would you propose to change it? Britain can't compete on quality. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
Let's face it though the investors are not interested. Which might be a short term fix but on the whole it would be a sticking plaster instead of a fix. How very true, zero defects and all that, shame the Rover group haven't applied this philosophy properly as say our Japanese friends have. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
I think you may not fully understand. There are no customers for Rover Cars but there may well be customers for the manufacturing plant. The role of both Gov't, Union and administrator is to attract investment to the plant - it need not necessarily be cars - but there is valuable asset in the tooling and workforce. Protecting the jobs is cheaper in the long term than consigning the community to the scrap heap. It need not be simply investment in the old plant. When Swindon Works (railway) closed both the local authority and unions set about retraining the displaced workers and attracted technical manufacturing (a mini west country silicon valley), Honda cars and the like. It still isn't time for the Unions to give up on their members.
So you'd rather have a McJob than a skilled trade that gives you some kind of tangible satisfaction? Hmm. You're either a cretin or a troll. Which is it?
as I tried to post (but was thwarted by Google) in the thread where Bear and Champ were discussing the changes in living conditions in the UK between the early 70s and now, I think the 5-10 years are going to be the best ever time to have been alive, and after that it's downhill all the way into liberal-market-led corpocracian distopia[1]. Enjoy it while we can. [1] unless the Chinese turn out to be a lot more benign than I'm expecting when they come on board.
Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Rope Ah! There you are. Tie this to that beam over there, and fetch me a step-ladder, there's a good chap. -- Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41 ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner", Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
This is rubbish. Britain is still very high up the world ladder (and simply centuries ahead of China) in : - pharmaceuticals - financial services - low volume / high skill design - entertainment (music, TV, film) amongst others. None of these are small industies, when taken as a whole. However, I will agree that when it comes to bending bits of metal into shape, we're unlikely to be able to compete with China on a cost basis.
Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, sweller That comes when they're too fucking skint to pay their subs. -- Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41 ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner", Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Where to start.... Create a level playing field for both developing and developed economies and I don't mean by hobbling the developing world. The current international political situation is geared to making money and consolidating the power that control of that money gives. This power is not in the hands of elected Gov't but falls to a few people; I mean a few - no more than a 100 people influence all the international markets, IMO. The short answer is to return that control back to the people at the bottom: Re-regulate; de-liberalise and recognise the market is not a mechanism of /control/ We've got what we wanted as consumers: cheap products now live with the social consequences. TBH I'm very pessimistic about the future.
No, I do understand. The only customer interested appears to have said "no thanks". I don't believe that skills in a particular type of tooling are actually what modern manufacturing is about any more, it is a misguided belief that a 20 year served machinist is worth today what they were worth say 20 years ago, there are machines which require less skill to do the same job better and faster, unfortunately Britain can't keep up. I fully agree with you on this point but the old "job for life" mentality does not work in todays market. Can they compete with the Pacific rim and China? I don't think so, I work on Grangemouth works which used to be one of the largest ICI sites, it is no longer viable, India and China do it cheaper and better, the future is not rosy for British manufacturing. Well they have been paying their dues so they deserve something, I just hate to see the long drawn out battles. Unless Britain gets competitive we are doomed to become a nation based on recycling what money there is instead of generating new cash. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
it was my own derivation of "corpocracy" (628 hits on Google). I guess I really meant "corpocratic" (145 hits).
This is what is happening with China with the end result being Britain cannot compete, we are too expensive. Also as the developing world develop the natural resources will be consumed even faster CO2 emissions will go through the roof, the planet will heat up even faster and everyone will die. Smacks a little of conspiracy theory however it does have a ring of truth about it. Which worked so well for the USSR, humans are greedy and selfish and as a species we are doomed unless we start modifying our germ line to remove selfishness and greed. I agree we are fucked. -- Martin: "For a minute there, you bored me to death." VTR1000 Firestorm TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com
You know this? Going on past precedents I've worked with: a skilled, educated, workforce is worth a lot to investors in certain industries. It's not a fix you idiot, it's a threat, it encourages people, it concentrates minds to come up with long term solutions. I think you have a very facile understanding of the wider forces that are at play here. This, to coin a phrase, is a threshold moment. This skilled workforce needs to be kept in skilled employment or we'll be joining the 'rush to the bottom'. I'd suggest you read something other than the Red Tops and papers that pedal Beaverbrook's poison.
read any modern mainstream literature discussing Globalization, or a history of the IMF and modern international banking. Try Stiglitz' "Globalization and it's Discontents". The writer is the former chief economist at the World Bank, so presumably he has at least 1/2 a clue about what's going on.
