Rog can't fix it.

Whatever is broken about the American race program, I don't think Roger
can fix it.

We had a decent turnout in Fontana couple weeks ago, and, frankly, some
of the best racing I've ever seen -- in all of the classes. SB Race 1
was standard fare but had some great mid pack fights. The other 4 races
were simply barn burners on every level.

At Sears, we had a better turnout on Sunday than on Saturday, but both
days I thought were pretty weak. And it's a shame, because I think
Sonoma had a really good program. They were running the road races, they
had a new motocross track doing their thing, and a Super Moto track
(which I never got too). There was also one of those silly stunt groups
doing wheelies and stoppies all day long.

Anyone who had any interest in 2 wheel competition/exhibition had
something to see at Sears this weekend.

But the road racing crowd was light, IMHO, and the Moto-X crowd was just
the participants and their families (along with a few lookie-loos like me).

But overall, the crowd was light.

Now, it was hot this weekend, hotter on Saturday, cooler than Friday,
warmer than Sunday, and Saturday is typically a light day anyway, with
the big deal happening on Sunday. Sunday was a nice day, with a touch of
wind. So, maybe it was the weather. Could be the economy, gas, etc. as well.

The key part about both Fontana and Sears is that they're right next to,
and readily accessible from, two of the largest bike markets in the
country. So Cal with its 365 24/7 sunshine, and the Bay area with their
all consuming wacky sport bike culture.

Yet they couldn't draw the crowd in Sonoma.

SB Race 2 on Sunday was just the most boring race I've seen in some
time. After some early race shenanigans, an accident when DiSalvo got
hit (and damn, I can't think of who hit him -- it was just nasty
traffic), and EBoz (hard earned 4th on Sat) being passed by Yates and
Hodgson down to 6th, boy did it settle down. Mat fading from a less than
1 sec deficit, and the announcers promoting "the battle for 12th with
Mizdal and Schwartz". After about lap 16, NOBODY moved an inch. They
weren't even closing. Just a parade.

But every other race was good. SStock and SSport were both good races.
And SB 1 was decent, with FX being real close. Oh, there was also a Red
Bull Rookies Cup -- thankfully Red Flagged after the 5th or 6th high
side in the race.

But nobody was there. "Close racing" won't bring people in. We've had
close racing for years, especially in the support classes. We've had
several close championships these past years as well, in all of the
series. Last year there was, what, 1 point leading in to Laguna for SB?
But how many folks showed at the track?

I just don't know where DMG plans to get the support for, well,
anything. The way things are sounding now, I still don't know if I'm
going to go to my local Fontana race next year, and I'm a pretty hard
core fan I think. Going for two races on Sunday just seems like little
value for the, no doubt, higher ticket price that they'll want. Moto-ST
(assuming they have it in Fontana) isn't interesting, and I wouldn't go
out for a single DSB race. It's hard to imagine not going, but, frankly,
not impossible.

At least on Sat. morning at Sears we had two interesting qualifying
rounds -- Jake Holden getting pole for SStock (on the Honda, not A
Honda, THE Honda in SStock), Geoff May 1 uping Yates for the the first
time, and, finally, BBoz destroying the lap record, set the day before
by Zemke, by .7 sec in SSport. Shame that won't ever happen again. Glad
I was there to see it.

Sat. in DMG will be filled with Moto-ST. Doug Polen, Jimmy Felice, Jay
Springsteen. yay. Good racers, sure, heroes of their day! But they make
the WSB veterans look like kids! I don't want to see a series where
these guys are competitive. That's just Wrong. Motorcycle racing is a
young riders game.

So, I don't know how DMG is going to "fix" the AMA. I don't know how
they're going to bring in new fans. When the fastest growing segments in
the motorcycle sales are Harleys, tourers, Adventure bikes, and women
riders.

I look at the local motorcycle apparel stores, where they're stocked to
the rafters with Moto-X gear, and look at the non-crowd at the Moto-X
event and wonder where all the people they sell that gear to are,
because they're not at the track. I guess, this was just some local
club racing, though they seemed to have some "Pro" classes, this wasn't
an AMA event as far as I could tell. The event had good participation,
but noone came to watch. Perhaps its different with other events.


So, now, DMG is scaring off the dedicated fan base, and I don't see
anything new that's going to attract anyone that hasn't been there
before, and for some time.

Maybe simple marketing will fix it. Maybe no one knows anything about
it. Maybe DMG will get racing on TV away from Speed, and that will
attract people. If that's the case, then DMG is right. Doesn't matter
what they race as long as it basically looks kinda sorta like motorcycle
racing. Crowds will cheer racers on the downslope to 50 as they run
about for several hours in the afternoon. But that's because they're new
viewers, and they don't know any better. These are the ones that will go
"Mat who?"

Regards,

Will Hartung

 

I mostly agree, but would again add that motorcycle racing in this
country, that is Proracing/AMA, lost a huge part of a whole generation
with it's current scheme of OEM domination, and to improve that must
change. Now, whether DMG's vision is the way to accomplish that, or not
remains to be seen, but whatever the case, I can't see it being much
worse off, or more obscure than it is right now...

 

So, between the 4 major races in Ca, one with MGP, you guys get what,
maybe 70k folks to them all? (note, not total weekend attendance)

It happens everywhere, not just at Sears and beyond the Yosh battle up
front no one except their team member T. Hayden has made any progress
catching them, for the last few years too..

So, maybe not even 70k, maybe just barely 60,000. Pitiful at best..

While I don't necessarily believe all the fan base has been alienated,
for sure some have..

Most everyone has a boss to please, so in this particular case I agree..

Yes, more than likely, but understand that formula has worked pretty
well for them in the past..

If that was really the case why did/has Edmundson spent so much time
trying to include ALL of them in DMG's vision? Why did he relent on SB,
err, litre? While I don't hold anything against the Nip's, they're only
the heavy's if they choose to be and from what I can tell only one has
chosen that route..

What goes around, comes around..

Total bullshit!!
The pompous and pretentious along with the Yosh crowd were trashing
these guys even before it was announced they had succeeded in
purchasing racing, so puhleeze take all that goodwill and put it where
the sun don't shine!

So, you don't like the Harley cruiser crowd eh? I see. I see you're
some sort of condescending elitist, or at the very least think your
money is better than others, interesting, but totally irrelevant..

And you know this how?

Let the fans decide is exactly what it looks like DMG plans to do and
with no huge fan base to begin with, the only way is up..

More than likely..

Professional SB racing in the US is on it's last throes, deal with it..

Not gonna happen, the big race day will be on Sunday, end of story..

I agree, well, with the part about focusing on one class and longer
races, but how fast that works out will probably have more to do with
the economy than anything else..

More bullshit, since Honda US took over for HRC only one team runs real
factory SB's in AMA. Oh sure, the rest of the Jap's are there, but
mostly only in spirit, and where are the Euro's?

They failed for a reason, but I'm going fishing and don't have the time
to argue, err, discuss it in length today..

Get out, really?

They bought the class, plain and simple, though that they were allowed
to only demonstrates how little direction Proracing had..

I can't say much about left coast crowds as I really don't have much
current experience outside of the dust bowl, but I gotta' tell ya',
they looked less than slim on the tube..

Home grown at best, but as you said, it's because of the money a MGP
effort demands..

10 years ago, or Proracing's "golden age" saw all/most the Jap's, Duc
and even Harley heavily involved at the factory level, today really
only sees Suzuki..

The only monkey I see is, well, nevermind. I have absolutely no idea
where you come up with some of your BS, but wow! Anti-Nip agenda? I
guess that goes along with DMG being racist and pedophiles too. Dood,
get real, the only color these guys care about is green..

You think different? I don't and obviously, not to mention a hell of a
lot more importantly, DMG doesn't either..

For absolutely sure and while I don't in any way blame them I do lay
most of this at the AMA's and Jap OEM's feet..

Again, who in the hell was going to put their gold in a sinking ship?
That business model has already failed, so who in their right mind was
going to throw good money after bad? Anyone who bought racing would
have made drastic changes, they had to in order to make money and trust
me on this, it's always about money, always..

Um, I think they've very correctly identified some of what has ailed
this sport for quite some time..

As long as it's only an advertising vehicle for the latest and greatest
that's all it can ever be..

Then you should have made an offer..

Well, the racing you like is very definitely on it's last legs, whether
that's good, or not remains to be seen, but if I had to bet today, I'd
throw down on DMG making something of it..

Well then, there you go. C'ya and take care..(give Sakakura our best
and be careful not to let the door hit you guys on the ass;-)

Are you suggesting the LA and SFO crowd dissed those very close races
so they could blow a shitload of bucks on gas to go half-way across the
country to see Indy, or Miller? Double wow! Could it possibly be that
they didn't want to pay good money when they already knew who would win?

Maybe we aren't even wet yet...

 

see you cheer along DMG again

What does that have to do with it? right now racing sells bikes
and bike related stuff. How does selling vaigra, Claritin and
Home Depot make people like it? Me I don't thinks it's ever going
to be as big here as it is across the pond - just a different culture.

Look at Soccer, Huge on the rest of the planet, nobody here cares.
even tho' at amateur levels it is everywhere now, and the teams spend
big bucks to bring in high level outsiders, (many years ago wes Pele,
now it is Beckham) and America in general still doesn't care. It's
not baseball, basketball,football and (sort of) hockey, so nothing
changes.

Again if they ruin it, but turn a profit you're OK with things.
Me I could care less whether rich folks get richer or not.

that >route..

bullshit - he didn't try at all, his initial take was to dump it entirely, and
when that created to much backlash, he said ok, use your rules *BUT* he
then added the minimum factory bike crap which killed it, but made it look
like he offered them a choice and they backed out, just posturing.

doesn't make it right or good.

no, most were good with the sale in general and had worries if it was NASCAR
folks taht they would ruin the actual racing instead of just fixing the promoting
side. And then, the more and more that comes out most of the worries appear to be true...



Look at it this way:


Say you had a favorite restaurant, had good burgers, and some other stuff.
The guy running it got by but struggled making a good profit. Another guy
was trying to start a chicken joint down the street, it wasn't a big hit,
but he had money from other venues that could carry him, but he had to
compete against a minorly popular burger joint. Burger man knew how to cook,
but didn;t have the money background to run a business. So he thought he'd
bring in a partner to run the business side of things, but wanted the Burger
Joint to continue. So he puts out an offer for a partner to take over advertising
and running the joint. In general it not a bad idea, get someone who can promote
them place and it might take off. Then it turns out Chicken man buys it.
Regulars are worried, we don't want out burgers to become chicken patties,
but wait to see what happens. Instead of trying to better promote the place as is
and focus on the business side, he decides what really needs to happen
is the whole things needs to completely change. He mentions that instead of
burgers he's going to sell ... wait for it .... Chicken! There is huge backlash
so he says ... ok, Chicken is still going to be the featured new dish but
I'll bring back burgers, but they'll only be the crappy version, and they'll
cost $200 dollars each. so when no one gets them he can "prove" he was right
"See? no one orders burgers, just chicken" and then remove the burger from
them menu. All of the burger fans are pissed and leave, it remains to be seen
seen if they will make the chicken place popular or not, but at least they don't
have to compete with the burger joint.

Bruce

 

Oh stop, kay? I think you know better, at least I hope so..

Unfortunately it has a lot to do with it, because it limits who can, or
will get involved..

They would allow others the financing to pursue the sport beyond the
OEM's and in doing so, grow it, or at least that's the way it's worked
in every other racing series in this country and I have absolutely no
reason to think M/C racing will be any different..

I hope you're wrong about that. Heh, evidently DMG hopes so too..

We'll see I guess, but that reminds me of an argument I heard many
years ago when AMA spun FT out of the the road racing thing and ditched
the big Grand Nationals. That is, we lost our identity and before you
go off on the that was then tangent, remember the folks that kind of
racing produced. Hmm, Rog and Jimbo, you guys paying attention?
(remember I wrote this first;-)

Bruce, full stop, okay? The only people I really care to see get richer
is, well, me and mine, so get past that. These guys bought it and
they're gonna do as they please, unfortunately I'm not gonna make a
penny on what they may, or may not do, but maybe you should ask
yourself who was making all the bucks before..

He called their bluff and showed how weak their position and solidarity
actually was, that's all, though I do think it was one hell of a ballsy
move and very well played..

I didn't say it was, but as I'm sure you know, that's pretty much how
things work..

These guys are Nascar and Grand Am, who in their right mind would think
they would do anything different? I quit dreaming of pie in the sky
many years ago and to think, or expect any outfit to change what they
do when they take something over is foolish and IIRC, that's exactly
what I said then and nothing I've heard so far has altered that view.
Again, they own it and will do as they see fit..

I understand where you're coming from Bruce, but there *might* be
something you're missing, or, at the very least, omitting. First of
all, burger guy wanted out because he finally realized he was in the
deep end of a pool and couldn't swim well enough, secondly, chicken guy
doesn't give a shit about beef and thirdly, but most importantly, he
now owns it and will do as he pleases. To me, this deal is a lot like
the takeovers I saw in the airline industry, people got fucked of that
there is no doubt, but planes kept flying and in fact, flew better,
fuller and the Corp's made more money. It sucked bigtime for some
that's for sure, but as we both know, shit happens and that's the way
it goes. By the way, don't think for a second I enjoyed, or relished
any of it, as there were a whole bunch of unknowns for a couple who had
invested their lives and their children's future in it and while that
was a hell of a lot more critical than this deal, one thing they have
in common is that neither us today, or me then, could do a damn thing
about it except walk away, or wait and hope for the best. And that's
how I handle stuff like this, it's out of my control, so why get all
crazy? Yeah, I grew up and have spent most of my life either in, or
around motorcycles and racing, but besides me shining it all on, what
can I do except wait and see? I like to think that's called realism, or
dealing with events with which I have no control, but who knows, I may
just be "nucking futs." Be that as it may, that's how I see this whole
thing, we're just spectators in a fairly good size poker game and
little more..
I gotta crash, there's a clown next door that swore he's gonna wake me
up in 4 hours so we can bob around in 6 foot seas, in the rain. Oh joy!
(burp)

BTW, I like Coolbeth, or Carr for the mile this weekend. Miller? Heh, I
think we both know already...

 

Dood, hat's off on all that, but can I get a couple of fish sandwiches
to go, your joint smells like Yoshozuki took a big dump in it...

 

That's it...I'm calling it Chicken Racing from now on. Chicken Week, the
Chicken races at Fontana, the DSC class...I'm all over it. Just need to
work on a logo and a T-Shirt.

Should we fork rec.chicken.racing?

Thanx Bruce!

(Who says threads on this newsgroup aren't productive!)



Regards,

Will Hartung

 

You should fork rec.motorcycles.racing.nasbike or maybe
rec.motorcycles.markn