Roberts Jr. on Electronics and motogp

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100824200wchampion.htm
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

 

maybe yes, maybe no.

sure you can - they have control tires, no reason they couldn't
limit electronic aids

not really - occasionally an exciting moment her and there but in
general the 800 era has been a giant parade snoozfest.

for another take read a new guys take on Motogp bikes:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100824m1r1.htm

where he spells it out pretty clearly that it is way more about the bike
and setup than about the rider.

Bruce

 

Not if they keep the 21 litre limit and not without a spec engine. You
can go all round this but you end up in places like the AMA Suzukis
finding a way to do traction control without traction control sensors.
Even a spec ECU doesn't work given the different engine configurations.
Or the situation where the most advanced road bikes have more
electronics than MotoGP.

And yet the aliens invariably end up at the front.

 

"Rossi Echos Roberts Jr."

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Aug/100830anpos.htm

--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

 

But no suggestion of how to do this.

 

Julian Bond realizes:

What if the FIM required wheel sensors front and rear and a
throttle position sensor and put on their own d/a logger for those
and maybe other data streams? Then post race they could
look at it and see if there was any software (non-humanware)
control going on. Seems like that could be made to work.



Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

that's a different question, the initial step is to recognize the
problem, which you were in denial of (just and old loser griping)
but now that the GOAT has spoken you accept and/or ignore that issue
and move on to enforcement.

the rules will need to be carefully made as to not make things worse
but something needs to be done.

Look at this weekends race - even though aspects are cool - spieas
getting pole and a podium, rossi doing well even after numerous practice
creashes etc. the race it self was BORING with a capital "B"

a nice spaced out parade, only passing was the opening few laps as
the ones with a faster pace made passes and then zoomed of - no real
dicing or great moves, just motoring on by.

Bruce

 

Yes, the race was boring. Yes, *something needs to be done*. And even
the GOAT is turning into an old loser griping[1]!

But until somebody comes up with a viable alternative it's still just
wishful thinking.

Increasing the capacity while retaining the same fuel limit is going to
make electronics even more important and the problems of getting a
smooth and rideable power curve even harder. With the proposed rules, I
can't see any reason why 1000s will be any slower in the corner or the
racing any better. There's still going to be one perfect line and 4-6
riders who can ride that perfect line for 45 minutes.

[1]Here's a question for you. Will Rossi ever win another race?

 

true, but thinking and discussions can be fun

i think the fuel limits are nonsense

as for other things, I like the idea mike had about having standard
sensors/ data loggers that can detect shenanigans.

I think so, but not as much as a would have a few weeks ago.

Bruce

 

And I think you're ignoring 5-6 years of development in tyres,
electronics, engines. The fastest way round the track in 2012 will be
2011, 800cc style cornering speed with 1000 style top end. Unless
something changes in the rules, I just can't see anyone giving up
cornering speed and corner entry speed when they can't get the extra
power down on the exit. It's not about physics, its about development.

Well the proposed rules as they are today it's 21 Litres for 1000cc
prototypes. The CRTs will be allowed 24 litres, but nobody yet knows
what a CRT team is or even if there will be any.

 

I have suggested this to people who know about these things. The reply
was that if the limit was 24L, they'd find ways of using the extra and
still pushing the boundaries to the point where electronics were needed
to manage the fuel consumption. We'd be right back where we were, just
with more powerful engines. It wouldn't make the racing any better, just
faster.

It does seem that whatever gets suggested has unintended consequences.
Rules designed to cut costs actually increase costs. Rules designed to
improve the racing make the racing worse. It's enough to make you think
they should stop trying, throw most of the rules away and go back to the
sort of rulebook we had 30 years ago. 1000cc, 6 gears, 150Kg, the end,
(Honda Wins). The alternative seems to be a spec championship based on
production engines with nothing that actually works in between.

As we get closer to the CRT scheme, the ugly spectre of WCM keeps
appearing. It's interesting to speculate about how fast a Yamaha M1
style bike with it's carbon brakes and prototype Ohlins but with an
unlimited tune and unlimited electronics BMW engine would be. There are
rumours that this is being built. There also rumours that WSB won't let
it race unless the engine is entirely re-made using the same reasoning
as when they stopped the WCM.

 

Whatever, we've been having that argument for 10 years at least.

But now the career progression is changing. 250 4s, Moto2. And Moto2 is
not necessarily the last step before MotoGP. Spies, Crutchlow are not
Puig protoges.

Then you look at Moto2 and it's Elias, Iannone, Luthi, Simon, Corsi at
the front. Go over to WSB and it's Biaggi, Haslam at the front and
Laverty a contender in WSS. Out of every name there, Spies is the single
exception. All the others are short, lightweight guys.

So what is it you hate about Captain Darling[1]?

[1]Google image search. Puig is the spitting image of Captain Darling
from Blackadder.

 

Another take on this.
http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21235&st=60

-----
The Bridgestone front tire. Unbelievable amounts of grip and predictable
all the way until it lets go. It turned MotoGP into a corner speed
sport.

I would also add that the TC everyone complains about (the banging and
popping off the corners) is the least significant element in the change
of styles that we have seen. Slipper clutches and the complex
electronics which keep the wheels in line on corner entry has been far,
far more important. Put the extremely complex slipper clutches and the
Bridgestone front tire together and you get a single recipe for speed:
Fast entry, fast mid-corner, carrying speed into the exit.

 

It kind of goes like this. The Ducati engine configuration means it's
naturally rear weight biased. They can't move the engine any further
forwards because the lower cylinders hit the front tyre. Bridgestone
develop a set of tyres to work with this. The front is super sticky to
work with the lower load. The rear needs the rearwards weight transfer
to get heat into it and work properly. Yamaha and Rossi switch to these
tyres. They have to mirror the Ducati frame setup to make them work. So
they progressively move the forks forwards takeing weight off the front
and raise and shorten the bike to get the rearwards weight transfer.
Because the Ducati worked the tyres best with quite a high CoG and lots
of weight transfer to get heat into the tyres, Yamaha mirrors this.
Stoner is off for a while and Rossi pushes development. Bridgestone then
start to develop a compromise tyre that is somewhere between what Ducati
and Yamaha want. This forms the basis for the control tyre. For whatever
reason, Honda don't get quite so radical with chassis setup as
Yamaha/Ducati and Pedrosa's lighter weight makes it harder to get the
weight transfer the tyres are designed to work with.

Then we switch to control tyres and Bridgestone base it on this
compromise modified to be a little less radical so it more or less works
for everyone at most tracks. It's actually Ducati who suffer most from
this because the tyre design has moved away from what they need to what
everybody else needs. The front tyre no longer works so well with their
more rearwards CoG. Stoner can't just chuck the front in and rely on the
front tyre to just stick. IMHO, he hasn't been able to alter his style
by the fractions needed to work with the current tyre so what he gets is
a series of front end crashes.

I think something has changed at Honda. It seems it was them who pushed
for the engine rule because it gave them an edge as a motor company.
That fresh impetus and hope has also made them a bit more open to
actually trying to get the chassis right. Put all that together with
Dani's temperament which is to be stunningly fast when everything is
exactly right and it all finally comes together. For the reasons you
give along with some others, everybody else is suddenly racing for
second. You can add in Dovi who's a 10th slower than Pedrosa, Stoner
who's lost his way and the other 10 non-aliens who either don't have the
last 10th or are manipulated into not having the machinery.

It's entirely possible that Dani now wins every race left but it won't
actually be enough. If they'd just hit form 2 or 3 races earlier or he
hadn't fallen off at Laguna this might have been his year. I know the
racing has been god awful boring this year, but I'm really looking
forwards to the last 3-4 races. It's all more of a technical chess game
than a proper man's sport but it's going to be fascinating seeing if
Yamaha-Lorenzo or Honda-Pedrosa can keep it together long enough. The
big fly in the ointment is if Lorenzo's pit lane start comes at exactly
the wrong time, or if Pedrosa's 5th and 6th engine are one race wonders.

 

Thankyou, Nostradamus.

 

And what a race that was!