Road Pricing

European emissions controls will do that in a few years.

 

Ding.

 

Absolutely. Historically speaking using tax never been a particularly
effective way of imposing change. It's far too crude a device.

 

I depends where and to what you're moving to/from. With stamp duty,
in the SE and in many other areas, it's all too easy to cost 15-20K to
move. That's not something you want to do that often!

 

Sorry but you are wrong. When you expand the supply of something that is
free at the point of use then demand will grow to fill it. Motorists are
notoriously bad at being able to assess the true costs of motoring. Our
current system of a flat licence fee is also perverse in that it almost
incentivises people to travel more to get more "value" out of the fee
they have paid.

You'll be telling me next that the Chinese haven't built a single new
road in Beijing - which of course, in Murray speak, is bollocks as well.

Only for those shallow enough to believe their personality is defined by
a tin box - thankfully these people are a minority. People buy cars to
travel to places to do other activities - like all demand for transport.
It's a derived demand and has particular economic characteristics - I
only studied economics for over a decade. People also opt for cars when
they assess them to be better than the alternatives on offer. The
problem is that people have no way to measure the impact their
unrestrained use of cars has on everyone else.

It's simple - our current usage of cars cannot be sustained. People will
have to change and the politicians will have to be brave enough to make
them do so. China and India and elsewhere have time to avoid our
mistakes regardless of how apparently wonderful our western lifestyle
is.

 

Yes but the scrotes should be locked up or else sent to the bus garage
to clean the buses - with toothbrushes.

Yes but the public simply have to tell their politicians that these
things are a priority for them and they will not get re-elected unless
they fix these things.

Agreed there is a risk but it is not as awful as you might imagine. The
same comments apply about local politics - people can make these things
happen. I appreciate things are different down here in London but there
is a boom in cycling courtesy of a long standing campaign to get a
network of cycle lanes and now action via the Mayor and his funding of
local transport schemes. The Congestion Charge has also helped in the
central area to make the roads a bit less intimidating.

I get on the bus with my shopping every week - I accept I'm only
shopping for me and no a family of 4 but I do wonder why people need to
do such huge shops. Oddly I am usually surrounded by other people who
have shopping with them while travelling by bus. Again I know London is
a bit of an exception but many local areas would not function if people
did not travel to them by bus to do their shopping. Yes we have lots of
cars too but there are over 6m passenger journeys *a day* by bus in
Greater London.

And I'm sure she's less fit and financially worse off as a result of
this lifestyle improvement.

And yes I don't have a car and I seem to manage to get about OK.

 

Congratulations. Sleep while you can.

 

...but you live in/around London where it's pretty easy to manage. Not
so easy in more rural areas.

It's been mentioned elsewhere but the central problem is too many
people in a limited area, and a system thats been built around the car
from well before Beeching. Didn't Thatcher talk about the "Great Era
of Car Ownership", or words to that effect? Too many out of town
shopping "villages" etc etc etc. To reform the publics transport use
needs root and branch reform of our entire social infrastructure, not
just slapping a tax on it to beat people into it.

 

Just put me in total charge of all UK transport policy and give me the
money and I'll get it sorted in 10 years flat ;-)

 

I rather like what has been done in Portland, USA. Click on this link
and then watch the short programme - link is under the tram picture.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4794361.stm

It's not a total solution but it points in the right direction by
offering an attractive, practical alternative in transport terms and
making modes like walking and cycling safer and more attractive. It's
also worth noting that their policy is to restrict or remove roadspace -
guess what people drive less and doubly so when there is an alternative.
The other key is to return the central area of the city to people rather
than cars and thus regeneration is triggered that does not need cars to
support it.

I could quite easily develop a transport, planning and environmental
strategy that would solve our problems but probably cause the sudden
death of every Daily Mail and Daily Express reader

 

No, that's not what I said at all. That is the reason for people buying
different *types* of car.

This I can believe.

 

I can't help wondering when they'll use the emissions stick to drive all
classic vehicles off the road.

<Thinks>

Or tracks. What about steam trains?

 

Very good point. And who has hiked the stamp duty? Oh, coo, could it be
Labour?

 

You've got my vote!

 

Figure from TFL today, congestion in the zone now just 8% lower than
before the "charge" AKA tax. Red Ken blames roadworks....

I hear phase 3 is in planning - S London and Greenwich.

 

Stamp duty on a rented gaff? Whatever next, inheritance tax on the
weekly wage?

 

Where do I sign?

 

Yes I do but I am firmly of the view that we can much, much better in
terms of providing an alternative public transport system for rural
areas. It would not cover all journeys but if we can shift a proportion
and offer mobility for people who live there to travel *and* offer a way
for visitors to get there and around on arrival then perhaps tourism
will not involve huge jams, fumes and congestion in some of our busiest
centres.

If the Scots can fund the restoration of an old railway line into the
heart of the Borders then I'm bloody sure we can re-open some of our
railway lines and do innovative things with interurban buses and demand
responsive integrated minibuses or taxis. They've done this in
Lincolnshire to great effect and with little money..

Yes but Thatcher was a heartless, selfish cow when it came to the
concept of the nation or society. As long as individuals got on OK she
was happy and sod you if you didn't. She famously said you were a
failure if you were over 25 and still used the bus - well **** you
Maggie I use the bus every day.

Yes I would agree. Transport does not exist in a vacuum - it has to be
part of an overarching strategy that changes the way in which society
works and makes currently unattractive or unviable options more
attractive or viable. I am convinced that there would be money to be
made as well but you'd a lot of power to push the (very powerful) vested
interests out of the way / convince them they can benefit from
supporting the alternative.

The big issue is that a lot of people in the UK have no real, practical
experience of what a good public transport system coupled with a decent
cityscape and environment is actually like. They cannot picture
themselves living their lives in a different way to their current tesco
and car obsessed existence.

 

Very good point. And who has hiked the stamp duty? Oh, coo, could it be
Labour?[/QUOTE]

They've also raised the basic stamp duty threshold by a fair whack as
well, don't forget.

 

Huh? I think you need to up the dosage. My daughter's medical need for a
1957 Maserati Zagato A6G[1] stems entirely from an aesthetic appreciation of
the design. And the colour.

[1]http://www.motorsportscenter.com/uploads/zagato_full.jpg

--
platypus

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to
give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
bald and unconvincing narrative."