returning riders

In reading the "DMV Skill Test" thread, I thought about riders who got
licensed when young, dropped out of riding for 30 years or so, and then
buy a new bike expecting to pick up where they left off.

couple of years ago I was at a BMW shop counter in SJ, buying small
parts. a 60+ guy was there to pick up his new R something Standard, and
was picking out a helmet and jacket. in the back parking lot sticking
my parts in the tank bag, I saw him trying to get it started. took him
a while to remember that if the sidestand is down, it won't start (I
wasn't going to tell him - if he can't figure that out, he shouldn't be
riding). finally got it going, and with WAY too much rpm started
slipping the clutch to get it underway veeery sloooowly with both feet
down and sliding. there's a big dip between the back lot and the
street, so his low speed made it easy for him to get it stopped with the
front tire in the street, the back tire in the lot, and his feet 6" off
the ground. he toppled over semi gracefully, executing a nice shoulder
roll. I ran over and hit the kill switch, helped him up, then called
the techs out the back door to wheel the newly scratched/dented bike
back inside for some TLC. he was pleading with them to not tell his
wife, as she opposed the purchase to begin with. I left them to figure
out how to conceal the jacket and helmet rash.

fast forward to recently, shopping for nice gloves at Helimot. really
hot day and a guy staggers through the door in full Stich, sweating
profusely. walks right up to us and announces he's dropped his BMW in
the parking lot. same guy! we went out and righted it, got him
unzipped and hydrated. has had the bike for several years, too scared
of it/traffic to ride much, didn't know if he could make it home. I
agreed to lead for him, to see if he had it together enough to even
follow. he was marginal but safe and waved me off at my exit, one
before his.

maybe repeat testing is in order for some situations...

Ken

 

Now, now! I got a loaner when my 79 R65 was in the shop, one of those
slick new chain driven 650s. Rode it home fine, if a wee bit too fast
Next morning, I was on my way somewhere, couldn't get the bike to start.
I hadda call the shop, and the first thing they asked was, "Is the
kickstand down?"

Well, no, it wasn't. Part of my routine involves starting the bike and
letting it idle while I don gloves and helmet. I kind of figure, if
you're not smart enough to remember the kickstand before heading out,
you prolly shouldn't be riding.

finally got it going, and with WAY too much rpm started

 

you say "feature" I say "bug"; it's still a single failure point. some
Jap bikes don't even come with a centerstand anymore.

Oooh!! I've been zinged unmercifully! In any case, where was the
salesman when the new customer rode off for the first time on his new
bike?

I like to think of myself as a helpful guy, including still trying the
find the guy in my neighborhood who is wearing his open face helmet
backwards, to give him a clue. that chin strap across his mouth *can't*
be comfortable...

Ken

 

the F650 will do that also, but the R11xx bikes (aka oilheads) won't run
at all with the sidestand down. Frankly, I usually don't put my R in
neutral when I start it, just get on the bike, clutch in, side stand up,
flip on the cold start booster (if its cold), key on, thumb starter,
vrooom, it starts, back out of my parking space if needed, roll out, soon
as on road, turn off the idle boost. I don't use neutral much at all
except for when I'm playing with the back wheel on the centerstand, or if
I'm at a long light and want to give my left hand a break.

 

Wow. This is kind of scary. If he is that unsure of riding, he is a
statistic waiting to happen (please don't flame me for judging a fellow
rider At first I felt that the sales people at BMW should have done
something ... but I am not sure what they could do (deny him a sale?
make him cart the bike home in a truck?). We can hope he takes a couple
of classes before experience teaches him an expensive lesson.

Your attitude about him and his side stand may not be as harsh as it
appears -- if you let him figure it out on his own, he'll learn better
from it. You should (and did) step in to prevent injury or damage to
property - but it is OK to let people get a little embarrased if it will
teach them. [OTOH: maybe it would have been more humiliating for him if
you told him to check the side stand]

FWIW: the DMV has a number you can call anonymously to "turn in" bad
drivers (who can be summoned to appear at a hearing) -- a purported
reason for this number is relatives turning in loved ones who have lost
their driving skills without confronting them directly. Maybe this
guy's wife needs to know about this number?

John

 

They will in neutral. I often start the bike in neutral with the side stand
down. Just need to remember to put the side stand up before putting it in
gear.

I ride a 2003 R1150RT. May be it is a discontinued feature??

Cheers,
Doug

Frankly, I usually don't put my R in

 

You mean like the 86 year old guy in SoCal who confused the accellerator
with the brake and barreled through the Farmer's Market last month? I
forget, how many people died while he walked away? Wasn't it 10 dead
and 45 injured? Didn't he also hit a parked vehicle just before that,
and instead of stopping, was splitting for home?

Ken

 

Even with a Fatboy or a decked out Wing it would be very difficult for
someone to take out so many pedestrians. And more over, if one is
becoming marginal behind the wheel of a sedan, they're long past the
point where they can ride. More likely one would be dropping it
before getting to that mall.

The danger is primarily to yourself - once you break your hip, it's
all over. But on the opposite side, I'm convinced that we keep our
facaulties as long as we use them, and motorcycling requires them to
get about.

 

It's a refinement, I believe. My 96 850R required the stand up. My 03
1150R merely requires neutral. I killed the battery on the old one when
I lived a mile from work, and had a security gate. Too short a distance
to make up for the starting juice, at least on an old battery.

 

Will the F650 crank but not start with the stand down?

 

The 86 year old who harvested the Santa Monica Farmers Market last
month kind of made that look untrue, though the stats show that older
drivers get into fewer accidents than younguns.
R, UB

 

You're right on that one. Unless the Legislature can be persuaded to
ignore the panic and not force mandatory retesting of auto drivers,
they will have to require mandatory retesting of motorcyclists. Best
case is that they will automatically renew the motorcycle endorsement
if you can pass the retest on your cage.
R, UB

 

perhaps for some values of 'older'. its a bathtub curve, however, and
much above 70 yrs, the curve starts to get steep again.

 

I agree that aging motorcyclists typically take themselves out of the
riders pool voluntarily, without taking anyone with them. Probably also
true for truckers and other vehicles requiring heightened skill sets
like large boats or any aircraft.

I object to blanket statements about letting the geriatrics set their
own limits, as they're among the last to know when they're over the
line. My 80+ mother-in-law won't drive her own car if I'm inside,
because she's scared I'll find out how incompetent she really is.

Seriously, active testing of elderly car drivers may yield greater
safety for riders than, say, speed limit enforcement on high speed
roads, objections to greater government involvement aside. Sadly, I
could imagine a "pilot" program for retesting that started with
motorcyclists, and having proved they're no threat, halts before any
cage only drivers get examined.

Ken

 

At least there would be no question as to whether he should continue
to be licensed to drive.
R, UB

 

Then mine must be busted.

The R1150 will allow it to run with the side stand down, but it will
kill the motor as soon as the bike is put in gear.

-B

 

ok, then its just the R1100 bikes that do this. I've only ridden R1150's
a few times, and never noted this behavior (I hardly ever use neutral
anyways).