Reliability of Chargers

X-No-Archive: yes

no.

 

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:34:49 GMT, wrote:

|>X-No-Archive: yes
|>>On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:17:53 GMT, wrote:
|>>
|>>|>> 2-3 amps is not too much for a semi quick charge on most M/C
|>>|>>batteries....
|>>|>i use 10 amps for 20-30 minutes on 12n's without problems.
|>>
|>> Do you remove the Battery Terminals?
|>no.

NO??? That's pretty freaky if your running a highly computerized
M/C Scooter like a Yamy Majesty 400, I used to do it your way on the Honda
CH250, but today's bikes have too much computerized things to go wrong if
the Main Fuse doesn't catch it....

The Main Fuse catches any anomaly in power surge, but there's
always that 1-->1,000+ times.....again computerized side stands and storage
box lights may be at risk of a surge....

Bob

 

X-No-Archive: yes

sorry, but i never said i had a scooter. they annoy me unless it's an old
vespa or guzzi. i don't think i would appreciate a computerized scooter or
bike. hmmm, i gues the list would help
3 1978 yamaha sr 500's. a rat , a custom and a hot rod
1 1966 yamaha yr1 350cc street.
1 1966 honda 305 chopper
1 1969 triumph tr6r
and various assorted stuff.

 

Geezzz......fuses don't "catch anomalies", they go open when presented with
a substantial overload. They generally don't "care" about spikes. They
certainly don't care about voltage spikes as a fuse "works" on excessive
current flow.

Equipment that is turned OFF doesn't care about spikes either.

 

Nonsense.

 

|>R. LaCasse wrote:
|>
|>>>>> Do you remove the Battery Terminals?
|>>>> no.
|>>
|>> The Main Fuse catches any anomaly in power surge,
|>
|>Geezzz......fuses don't "catch anomalies", they go open when presented with
|>a substantial overload. They generally don't "care" about spikes. They
|>certainly don't care about voltage spikes as a fuse "works" on excessive
|>current flow.
|>
|>Equipment that is turned OFF doesn't care about spikes either.
|>

Witty dissection, what I meant by Surge isn't a spike, but a
Battery Charger (Current) Overload.

Oddly the Yamy Shop Manual says not to use Auto or constant AMP
chargers since they will damage the MF GTB9-4 "wet" SLA battery. and that
means ALL of the Battery Tenders on the Market, doesn't it.

I have since switched to an AGM hybrid, were I can quick Charge
with no Damage to 12v/5amps.

Bob

 

|>
|>> NO??? That's pretty freaky if your running a highly computerized
|>> M/C Scooter like a Yamy Majesty 400, I used to do it your way on the Honda
|>> CH250, but today's bikes have too much computerized things to go wrong if
|>> the Main Fuse doesn't catch it....
|>>
|>> The Main Fuse catches any anomaly in power surge, but there's
|>> always that 1-->1,000+ times.....again computerized side stands and storage
|>> box lights may be at risk of a surge....
|>
|>Nonsense.

Shear rubbish. pip pip and that blighty wanky concept to toss out.

I agree that a side stand like the (Helix cn250-1990 and Yamy
Majesty 2004--->2009) with a starter cutout is a bit awkward, and the
underseat storage box with the light can drain a battery if it's low....

Yep that part is nonsense!

Bob

 

I wouldn't have to be so "witty" with my "dissection" if you would be
clearer in your declarations.

How do you connect the battery charger so that it goes THROUGH the main fuse
as it is charging ???
I don't think I've ever seen it done that way before. ;-)

 

My two bits, get rid of the lead acid battery and put in a niMH you
can charge these in 30 minutes form dead with no problems. Lead acid
batteries are a hassle, they simply cannot be fast charged as the
voltage rises and they produce gas. ( Sounds like me at a fast food
place!!) Another alternate for this kind of problem is to have two
batteries and make a quick change system so you can get it in and
out. Anderson connectors are fantastic for this kind of job. Keep one
charged and change them over as needed.

 

|>
|>How do you connect the battery charger so that it goes THROUGH the main fuse
|>as it is charging ???
|>I don't think I've ever seen it done that way before. ;-)

Well, If you use the (0) terminal rings with your
Optima/C-tec/Battery Tender, and you accidentally forget to disconnect the
(-) terminal and are in a hurry to see if your charger has done the
job....it'll pop the main fuse for sure....

The Main fuse and battery is only accessed through the ignition
switch...right...

Then there's your "taillight" brown wire, which is always alive, you
can pull that too if your doing a more than 10 amps charge.

I remove the (-) terminal if I'm going to use some zap above the
rectifiers 14.9v, it's mostly for peace I guess, so many strange circuits in
different bikes, like the yamy Majesty side stand ignition cutout, interior
storage box..and some days your mind isn't so clear.

 

Just a thought , put in an extension from the battery terminals to a
Anderson connector, put leads to a Anderson connector on a spare
battery , something you can lift with one hand, Then just wait till
you want to start , plug the connectors together, start the bike and
go. Unplug first!!

 

|>>         I remove the (-) terminal if I'm going to use some zap above the
|>> rectifiers 14.9v, it's mostly for peace I guess, so many strange circuits in
|>> different bikes, like the yamy Majesty side stand ignition cutout, interior
|>> storage box..and some days your mind isn't so clear.
|>
|>Just a thought , put in an extension from the battery terminals to a
|>Anderson connector, put leads to a Anderson connector on a spare
|>battery , something you can lift with one hand, Then just wait till
|>you want to start , plug the connectors together, start the bike and
|>go. Unplug first!!

I use 2 older $214 Yamy Majesty GS "wet cell" SLA MF on a UPS
"opz/inverter/converter" float all the time to Jump Start with regular car
cables when the battery get's too low because of the alarm or temporary
neglect.

I just use one battery at a time so far, but these Specialty
Batteries are pricy, and are finicky/sensitive to charge because of hi-vrla
internal resistance so the El Cheapo "AGMs" are better with less internal
resistance, at least the "AGMs" are better pricewise.

 

I fabricated my own harnesses with the standard "trailer" type 2-pole
plugs, and they work great. The plugs are available at just about any
auto parts store, add wire, splice/solder/shrinkwrap, add rings on the
end, solder, shrink wrap and youre done. Just double check the polarity,
though.

 

http://batterytender.com/why_batterytender.php
Various charging algorithms are available to acommodate the wide range of
lead acid battery styles: Flooded, Sealed, VRLA, GEL & AGM. Check with the
factory for the combination of power, current, voltage and battery style
that best meets your needs. Battery Tender battery chargers are equipped
with a variety of safety and interconnect options, not available on all
models.

I own 3 Battery Tender Plus units and NEVER had a battery damaged, I even
left one battery hooked up for 2 years.

 

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:34:37 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber

|>OTOH: it is time for me hook up the intelligent charger for a few
|>hours -- just to ensure the battery hasn't sulfated (the charger has a
|>desulfate mode which attempts to desulfate a battery by using high
|>amperage pulses at around 15-16 volts)

How long does it the charger stay in "desulfate mode" for at 15-16
volts.

My shop manual says to charge at 16-17 volts for 5 hours at
..8amps... it says a lot of MF AUTO Chargers may no works, and may damage the
battery....onthe other hand THAT battery said 12v/.8amps only......

The chinese AGM battery I have now says 1 hour at 12v/4.5amps or
regular charge 12v/.8 amps 5 hours.....
All these batteries say something different, because they are all
somewhat different IE: Wet/MF/SLA/VRAL/GEL/AGM,........But most any cheapo
batteries are just a HYBRID of that, a bit of all those, so an intelligent
charger can ping the battery to see what it can handel. it takes longer but
is the best method for most.

 

|>
|>http://batterytender.com/why_batterytender.php
|>Various charging algorithms are available to acommodate the wide range of
|>lead acid battery styles: Flooded, Sealed, VRLA, GEL & AGM. Check with the
|>factory for the combination of power, current, voltage and battery style
|>that best meets your needs. Battery Tender battery chargers are equipped
|>with a variety of safety and interconnect options, not available on all
|>models.
|>
That's pretty exce$sive battery charger for me, 4 bays?

|>I own 3 Battery Tender Plus units and NEVER had a battery damaged, I even
|>left one battery hooked up for 2 years.

I don't doubt that, I've had some on for 3 years and they still work
as good or better as when I installed them, no muss no fuss....

Oddly, (by no choice of my own), I rent 2 residences and I have to
park in a parking lot with NO Electrical Outlets for a Battery
Charger/tender/warmer, so I rely on the "charge and let sit" for a duration
of time, then "charge and let sit" all over.

The trickle charge method I use is good for ppl who don;t have a
life, and can pay attention to the battery charging process.

Even then, we are dealing with all sorts of MF/AGM type hybrid
batteries and doing the math and watching the logic is a bit tedious for
most, so I say the "Battery Tender Plus" is a must, especially the 5 stage
desulphation one if you afford it.

 

There's lots of opportunity for confusion on the internet, Ctek, Battery
Tender and Schumacher (I didn't check Optimate) sites all seem to suffer
from specifications or advice that needs assiduous attention to be
clearly understood. I get the impression, perhaps wrongly, that the
various small chargers are a compromise, 14.4 volts at 0.8 amps isn't
too hard on gel batteries and is close enough to do a reasonable job on
agm batteries. Also, they all seem to aim for about a charge of about
80% of capacity, to go higher means leaving the charger connected for a
number of days. Of course, it's likely not entirely the manufactuers'
fault since many readers might confuse voltage, which is just an energy
to charge ratio, with current capacity.


Yuasa's site says NEVER fast-charge, but the labelling on their
batteries says otherwise! I know of dealers who aren't aware that a
fast charge is only a surface charge, enough to get the bike started on
the assumption that hours of riding with the alternator charging will
produce a deep charge. Suspect this is partly to please people who buy
a new battery on Saturday morning expecting to ride the bike away before
noon. I know people with electric bikes (obviously no alternator) who
use fast chargers on them and are always complaining about miniscule range.


The Ctek chargers that have 'motorcycle' modes don't offer an AGM
voltage, that setting (14.7 volts if I've got it right) is only
available for the higher current modes to be used with larger batteries,
ones with about 50AH or more capacity.


I doubt if de-sulfation on a bike battery which are nearly always 20AH
or less involves a high current and a high voltage, more like a low
current and intermittent high voltage, approaching 15, but would be
grateful if anybody could correct me.


(As far as I know Yuasa's 'MF' means AGM. They've had two types of MF
for years (plus a couple of new ones) but as for the traditional ones,
the older kind is where the user installs the electrolyte and the other
one is where the mix is factory installed, it is the latter kind of MF
that is intended for non-vertical installation.)


This pretty much exhausts my knowledge!