Changing the subject a bit from dead bikers, but perhaps relevant a little. Riding through the hanger lane gyratory lane twice a day, it wouldn't be a stretch to say I'm shocked with the number of cars that run red lights. I don't mean the odd one every other day, I mean 5, 10 or more through every single light change. Today, a van that was stationary, beside me at a red light suddenly decided to go through it. I wish they'd repurpose some of those gatsos to red light cameras... Paul