Re: Harley Davidson Dyna ride height

It's a bird mate, it isn't a flavour.[/QUOTE]

Bzzt.

 

Gary R. ... or is it? wrote

See, here you go. You think that because you, and all yer poseur mates,
can ride a fast bike within it's limits around a track that you can
ride.

Yeah, right.

Slightly different story off track though innit eh? Put you all on open
roads with no traffic and you can boast all day long about how fast you
can go and how much in control of your machine you are. Much fun for
the bigger world of real riders who would see you off big time across
London/New York/Tokyo on a learner legal.


Impressed by you lot? You cannot believe by how little.

 

It's a bird mate, it isn't a flavour.[/QUOTE]

Does you get wafers with it?

 

"Does you"? FFS!

 

"Does you"? FFS![/QUOTE]

Bwahahahaha.

 

Does you get wafers with it?[/QUOTE]

No you don't get bloody wafers, it's a bloody albatross.

 

FYYFF

 

Hold on, I've got a spare soul in one of these here boxes you can have
;o)

'Hog

 

What's the rules on bellypans in the states, only I don't see one
on that bike, and I was just wondering...

 

muddy wrote

No you don't get bloody wafers, it's a bloody albatross.[/QUOTE]

No wafers you say, so that'll be Ketchup then and not Brown Sauce?

 

I'm with Ben on this. I know, objectively, that Porsces are great
cars, but I could never have one. Too show-offy, too brash, too
nouveau-riche.

Too Porsche.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Nope. I'm talking purely about image. In real life I've no desire to
own a proper sports car at all, but I could see me with a Ferrari,
Lotus, Aston or whatever, but not a Porsche.

Bzzzt. Irrelevant.

Whatever you want, dear.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Now that's the right question.

It is a combo of the rider shifting his weight and/or counter steering.

But before disagreeing, look at a typical superbike - the one Code put two bars
on for example. First, even a 600 weighs close to 500# wet, more than twice that
of a TZ-250 that has similar power/weight but can run rings around it. Second,
find the head gasket. There's alot of motor sticking up above it. There'd be
less than an inch and less than a pound on a 2-stroke. This affects the way one
rolls the bike into cornering attitude.

On a 175 pound race bike one depends on weight shift more than one can on a 500
pound Stuperbike which, with 100 or more of those excess pounds high in the
frame, responds little to a 150# rider shifting part of his weight. That lack of
response, caused by simple physics, leads riders with little or no experience on
race bikes to believe that only counter steering works, and that is true for
heavy bikes with bad weight distribution.

Approaching a corner on, say, a TZ, one begins 'hanging off' as one applies
brakes. Whist his smooth movement includes an almost unconscious counter steer
input it is the combo that puts the bike at the needed lean angle in one smooth
motion. Approaching the same corner on a superbike, particularly a UJM, one must
give the bars a good hard jerk to start the bike rolling then reverse pressure
to stop it (again, Lawson used to bend bars on his Kawasaki). Yes, you can use
the race-bike method but your transition times will be so long that your lap
times will suffer.

This different technique is required by the excess weight of 4-stroke motors,
designed for street use and required to satisfy emissions laws. Most of this
excess fat is high above the ground and its inertia causes a pendulum effect
that first resists starting then stopping a roll into cornering attitude. This
same effect makes it much more difficult to make minor corrections whilst
cornering making it harder to ride near the edge.

In the first case the bike smoothly rolls around a line thru the tyre contact
patches. In counter steering, the front tire is flicked to one side to initiate
roll so the bike tries to roll around a line thru the CG of major weights, which
perforce is higher than the contact patches. This in turn tries to lift the
tyres off the ground at a very bad time - it seldom actually does so due to the
heavy weight of the bike but does tend to reduce traction when you need it most.
This is pure indsputable physics.

Minimal pendulum effect allows race bikes to be snapped into and out of
cornering attitude faster and to safely be ridden on the edge of traction, which
is why they corner so much better and also why superbike racers prefer NASCAR
type tracks with long straights, sweeping banked corners and few chichanes.

Again, compare F3 races to superbike races and see how much the F3 riders can
get away with in the corners. When they put a left-then-right chichane on the
highly banked straight of a NASCAR track one young lady negotiated it on her
TZ-125 by doing a brakie, flicking the bike left which caused the airborne back
tire (and bike) to snap 90 degrees til the tire hit the banked track with the
bike now facing downhill into the infield. As the bike snapped around,
completing the left turn, she'd flick her bod off the right side so the bike
immediately made the right turn out of the chicaine -- all this at about
80-90MPH. She laughs when I suggest she try it on her ZX-6RR but you're welcome
to do so on your GSXR <grin>.

Why 4-stroke sport bikes then? The answer is overpopulation resulting in
emission laws 2-strokes can't satisfy. Suzuki had a great motor (for its time)
in the 750cc "Water Buffalo". Imagine what theycould offer had they put as much
time and money into it as they had to put into their 4-strokes. Would you like
a 300 pound GSXR 750 with over 200 hp - more if you wanted it - that *didn't*
have the equivalent of a #27 car battery under the tank? Well you can't - thanks
to all them folk having 3 and more kids. But thats just as well - you'd prolly
kill yourself on it!

 

Try understanding a little physics. Maybe then you might begin to have a clue.

 

No, you misunderstand. I don't want a Porsche or any other sports car.
If I was actually remotely interested in owning a sports car, I'm sure
I would accept what you say - my previous comments were base solely on
the image that I have of Porsches and their owners.

But I can also quite happily accept Ben's point that, even though he
_does_ fancy a sprotscar, he wouldn't consider a Porsche. Why should
he not be allowed to apply blind prejudice? After all, 90% of Porsche
owners are biased the other way, based purely on image.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Lol, you ****.

 

Ooh me too please, but a Strosek:
http://porsche928.net/history/images/strosek_16.jpg

--
Krusty.

http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
http://www.muddystuff.us
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250

 

Sure, if your knee pads hold out, but its a compromise technique forced on you
by your bike's poor weight distribution that adds fractions of seconds to your
lap time every time you do it. And the 1 time it don't work it'll spit you off
hard. Conversely ..

With all due respect, if your knee MUST be on the ground that hard then you are
not using your weight properly else you'd be off the edge of your tire and have
crashed. In the first case you could better your lap times by better use of your
body. Club racers who corner with their knee hard down inevatably have their
torso actually off on the other side of the bike such that their body remains
vertical. This forces the bike to lean far more than really needed. It is a
common motocross technique that AMA-CCS GPZ-550 riders on bikes lacking proper
clip-on bars carried into roadracing. However it is simple not proper on a
competent bike. A good rider uses his knee to feel where the ground is, just
touching, but does not drag it all the way around a corner. Balancing his
weight on the outside peg, he can easily shift his ars out as needed nd lift a
knee to avoid knee-knockers. Friction eats HP and knee pads.

<scoff> I believe you believe that, based on watching poorly ridden TZs, and
you'd not be "racing against" any other kind. But you are sadly mistaken. Last
time they let a TZ-250 race in F-USA it ate the F-USA liter bikes alive. On the
first lap, the 250 passed the 2 lead superbikes at the top of the hill and was
crossing start/finish when they were just entering the last long sweeper (9?) at
Willow Springs. You gonna tell me he had that much motor on them? Or that he was
dragging his knees harder? Or that you would have kept up to see how the TZ
handled? Don't handle that differently indeed .....

 

You were very luck and have excellent instincts. I saw a GSXR 750 just barely
touch a muffler clamp startng a mild rear-wheel slide. When the rider did just
as you did the bike bolted upright with the rear a foot off the ground spitting
him off over the bars. Then the bike proceeded on it own til crashing. Clearly
you should be the racer and that guy shoulda been in the stands.

 

Dunno, who the **** are you?
--
Dave

GS850x2 XS650

On UKRM you're just a **** with opinions.