Re: Harley Davidson Dyna ride height

Typo corrected

 

Numerous folks, including those who share your "(British/European)
view" have pointed out that a large proportion of the bikes Harley
sells are, in fact, touring bikes. Electra Glides, Road Glides, Street
Glides, and Road Kings are emphatically not cruisers. They do not have
raked out front ends, they do not have single disk front brakes, they
do not have oversize (diameter) and simultaneously undersize (width)
front tires, they do not have the "feet forward" riding position that
has been discussed. Thet do have lockable hard luggage, comfortable
straight-up sitting for all day comfort for two, most have electronic
cruise control, they have wind protection, stereos, belt drive, and all
the other things that have been said here even by those who share your
"(British/European) view" to define a tourer.

Around here, we teach people to ride on little tiny 500cc motorcycles
which are suitable for rank beginners. ....Of course, they have about
the same horsepower as a modern 125, but that's another story...

Greg

 

H'mmmm. Harley exported more bikes in the third quarter of 2005 alone
than any European manufacturer's projected total yearly sales in the
U.S. for 2005 except for dirtbike maker KTM. In fact, the total of all
European manufacter's projected imports to the U.S. for 2005 (44,758
units) are less than Harley's exports for the first three quarters of
2005 (49,305).

Hopefully, Harley is reading your industry insights and will respond
appropriately!

 

Harley exports to where?

If that's total exports, not just European exports, then you need to compare
with *all* imports - including from Japan, as I assume that some H-Ds get
exported there.....

Or you could make it a bit more of an honest comparison by supplying data
for H-D exports to the EU only.

Plus, of course you aren't actually addressing the pint. In fact you kind
of reinforced the point by noting that KTM are selling a lot of dirtbikes in
the US. What is the equivalent Harley model to a KTM dirtbike and how many
have been sold in Q3 in the US?

Dave

 

What has the number of imports into the US got to do with Harley making
models for global use?

Yes they export a lot - fine. But they still don't make anything suitable
for, as an example, the cheap commuter market.

It's not their target audience- I'm not saying they should (Ducati don't
make one either!).

 

Sorry, but my opinion (you know what that means, yes?) remains the same.

I think Harley make cruisers. They make a bike they claim is a tourer - *I*
don't think it is.

"Thanks" "for" "your" "contribution".

 

We dismantled it, remember? It wasn't taken from us, not by conquest
nor by nations declaring UDI (with the exceptions, of course, of
America in the 18th century and Rhodesia in the 20th). We took it
apart, brick by brick.

Quite apart from the economic issues, having fought a world war for,
among other things, the rights of nations to choose their own leaders
and governments, and the essential wrongness of imposing your military
on other peoples, we weren't in any moral position to say: "We're
keeping this."

In time, I daresay it would have gone anyway. Canada and Australia were
already self-determining. But the point is that we decided to take it
apart ourselves, in a generally (but not always) peaceful and
far-seeing manner. While I think that the Empire was a force for good,
overall, I also think the way we got rid of it was a huge feather in
our caps.

Interesting to see that, post-1945, the US has taken *exactly* the
opposite approach and gone empire building itself.

Our legacies?

The world's largest democracy.

A common language that is spoken and understood around the world,
except possibly in the US. A wry affection (often disguised as
antagonism) between the UK and other ex-Empire countries, and between
many of those countries themselves, that the US simply cannot
understand becvause it has no equivalent.

A legal framework that still works in many places.

Infrastructure: roads, railways, ports. communications.

Some fabulous universities and other centres of learning, and
opportunities for study here.

Cricket, which unlike your version of rounders, is played and enjoyed
by nations right across the globe. And they all beat us at it too,
except for this year.... And hackneyed though it may sound, the sense
of fair play that comes with learning the intricacies of one of the
most subtle games on earth.

In other words, a bit more than a few hamburgers.

 

Have you ever had a look at uk.rec.sheds? I have a feeling you might do
quite well there.

 

Sorry mate, despite my preternatural charm and handsome looks the
closest you'll get is jacking off to a mere thought. Us Yanks are not
as easily misled as you socialised groupthink sheeple.

 

On 15 Dec 2005 05:31:00 -0800, "TOG@toil

The Opium Wars.

In part to the US's continued dominance! Or did you think the Frogs
would learn English quietly?

One in which the founders of America saw as so unjust they devoted an
enitre war and several nation founding documents fixing it.

Wrongs like trial without jury. Pleading the fifth and avoiding
self-incrimination (something you lot still enjoy today I might add).
The ownership of weapons by the citizenry, free nations like
Switzerland share this right whilst the Third Reich denied it as does
most of Europe today.

The Queen had to deliver her spoils back to the motherland.

You forgot the legacy of colonialism which destroyed just as many
nations as it helped out. Slave trade? Don't tell me it was only the
Dutch!

My forebears came from British colonialism. True, they were a lot
fairer than most conquerors have been historically speaking but they
were still conquerors.

Taxes were paid to the Queen under duress, protests and rebellions put
down with blood, land and property arbitrarily taken from one and
assigned to another. Sure they built schools and educated the
populace, they wanted economic prosperity. So they could raise taxes
even further! Agitators disappeared. Oh yes, another American right
borne out of British wrong... freedom of press, association and
speech!

Basically the same shit that the American colonialists rebelled
against. Which is to say so long as you were *caucasian* and a subject
of the Queen you made out ok. Not a slave or starving. But any excess
was trimmed out to be sent abroad. And the only people who did
exceedingly well were British collaborators who kept their countrymen
under thumb.

 

True, IF the Japanese were selling their cars at a profit (were they?).
Here, they were selling bikes for far less than they had cost to produce and
market and their government was paying the difference. Hard to sell a H-D
or even a new Gold Wing when Honda is pushing two year old (but near
identical) Gold Wings at 1/3 off.

I went cash in hand to buy a new Goldwing when the fully-dressed
'Interstate' model appeared in 1981 but the dealer said he couldn't get one
until he'd sold a quota of left-overs. He could, however, sell me a brand
new 1979 model for $1000 less. I bought a BMW and rode to Canada. They had
plenty of 1982 Wings for sale there.

True. Pension and healthcare during pension are nothing more than deferred
labor costs. Our industry execs have long blamed workers and their unions
for their problems but guess what - Japan opened many plants here to avoid
tariffs and they have none of these problems despite having the same
workers. There are two major differences. Japanese execs earn only a bit
more than workers and do not treat workers like lower class peons.

 

Bwahahahahahaha! Nice rebuttal! Not.

Firstly it sounds like sir.tony speaking.
Secondly it's the usual "I've lost the argument so I'd better call the
'yerpans commies" retort.
Thirdly, it would appear that you, sir, live in the land of cathode-ray
induced hypnosis. A land where conspicuous consumption is praised,
everything good is thanks to God and the bad is due to 'Evil' and nothing is
your own fault 'cos there's always some other sucker to blame and/or sue,
*and* you bailed 'yerp out of 2 World Wars.. And you think *our* minds are
twisted by group control? Rather think the oil corps and big bucks have
diluted your opinion-forming functions just a tad, eh?

Dave

 

"That damned piece of paper" as Dubya called it the other day, eh?

Gun ownership is a good thing, eh? Who, pray tell, are the armed citizens
of the 90% of the US without passports 'protecting' themselves from? How
come gun ownership in Canada is approximately the same, proportionally, as
the US, yet the firearms murder rate in the US is disproportionately
massive? You need 'em taking back off you and pronto.

Replace "Queen" with "US" and "raise taxes" with "pump oil" and you could be
talking Iraq.

Freedom of the press, association and free speech! Give it a break - the US
mainstream is one of the least free-speaking press in the western world -
it's only through recourse ot the courts and constant referrals back to
GWB's damned piece of paper that a tiny minority uphold freedom of speech
over there!

And once again you seem to miss an important point - Europe did that and
then, on the whole, learned that they'd gone about things in the wrong way.
The US ignores all the historical evidence and continues to repeat the
mistakes of the past because they appear to believe the myth about biggest
is best and might is right.

Dave

 

During the 1980s Japanese manufacturers produced far more bikes than they
could sell at reasonably profitable prices. Rather than stop production and
lay off workers, as others do, the government subsidized manufacturers so
they could profitably offer these bikes at a price they would sell at even
if this was less than cost. The result was warehouses bulging with bikes
that had never been sold but were 2 or more years old. These were offered
at sometimes less than half the price asked when new. In 1982 I was offered
a new1979 Goldwing for more than $1000 less than I'd have paid in '79. I no
longer recall the exact numbers but it was like $4200 for an 82 vs $2700 for
a NEW 79. Of course 3 years later leftover 82s were going for similar
discounts. Made it hard to sell a H-D for over $5000.

I can't say if the Japs were actually trying to drive competators out of
business or simply avoid unemployment at home but the effect was the same.

I don't know of a place this is documented. You might find mention of it in
magazines of the period or in H-Ds petition for tariff relief.

 

Actually taxes were barely paid at all and the taxes we were trying to
collect were largely to protect your coastline from pirates.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Didn't you have a King back then?

 

Too little luggage and too confined a riding position.

It might be 22 deg when I left in the morning, or 100. It'd take over an
hour to get to work, mostly at 55-60 mph but some slow speeds thru town. It
might then be 35 and raining hard when I started home 10 hours later. Or it
might be 35 and raining when I left but 85 and sunny for the trip home. And,
oh yes <grin> it was uphill both ways.

My FLHTC offered enough weather protection to keep me dry, enough luggage to
carry various kinds of cloths to suit the conditions plus my briefcase and
all, a roomy cockpit that allowed me to move around even bundled up, and
plenty of amps to run my heated underclothing and grips.

I never tried the trip on an FJR but owned both a R1100RT BMW and an ST2
Ducati. Both were fair weather bikes, far less comfortable than the H-D in
bad weather.

 

Errr....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4441182.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4504106.stm
and not least
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/4527520.stm

ObHarleys: the four we hired in CA earlier this year were reliable
enough - close to 5000 Harley miles between us with not a squeak.
They were underpowered and didn't handle, but they didn't break
down.....

 

When JH was out here a few years ago, the harley he rented had quite an
oil leak.

 

In uk.rec.motorcycles, WavyDavy amazed us all with this pearl of wisdom:

Actually I don't think it's a yank at all, a bit in the same way that
Des wasn't French.

They can't help it. They're bought up to believe that they are better
than everyone else.

A burd on MSN told me that so it must be true.