Race day...

....and it's cold and cloudy/foggy, no visibility problem this morning
but this stuff promises to be more tenacious. The warmup must have
been a waste for almost everyone, as no one was likely on their race
tire. But the track will almost certainly be cooler than it's been the
last two afternoons.

My guess is that there arr a few Michelin guys who will be lower than
they qualified (Lorenzo, de Puniet, Toseland, maybe Hayden) and
Bridgestone guys who will be higher (Vermeulen, Nakano, Melandri,
probably Spies, maybe Hacking, de Angelis if his thumb is
serviceable). Those 'stoners really got hurt in qualifying, but the
race should be different. I still take my Stoner-Rossi-Vermeulen
podium, although I withdraw that Rossi dice roll at this point. Nick
could get on thw box, but only if he can get away from Chris in the
early laps. And too bad about my Gresini call, which looked very good
until they both crashed in the Q.

Beyond the Stoner runaway and the Rossi chase, it should be a good
race, lots of guys running similar times. And I can see more crashing,
as the surface - tire issues will continue. Damned tire rule...

 

Oh. My. God.

One of the best races I can remember. Vale showed why he's considered
the Greatest of All Time - they way he took the fight to Stoner, never
gave him a moment to try and string a lap with a clear track, was
obviously his plan, and boy did it work. The psychological advantage
of today is just huge.

 

Absolutely amasing race, just as I thought MotoGP was not worth
watching...
D'ye reckon Pedrosa could've run up with these two boys?

 

No, I doubt it. I don't think Michelin brought a set of full wet tires
to use to give him the edge.

Regards,

Will Hartung

 

Did we just see a re-run of Jerez 2005? Will the list of people Rossi
has broken read, Biaggi, Gibernau, Stoner?

What's kind of strange is that for all Stoner's experience of UK club
racing, Spanish championship and his time in 125GP and 250GP he hasn't
come to terms with racing and what happens in racing. He can run away at
high speed on his own, but he can't work out how to pass, make it stick
and cope with it when it doesn't stick. Instead the toys get thrown out
of the pram and he starts moaning about dangerous riding.

Rossi put some hard passes on him to come straight back. But Stoner left
the door open. And in each case Stoner knew he was there. It's not like
any of those passes were a Capirossi (Byrne, Haslam) style ramming. What
Stoner had to do was to make a pass, make it stick though the next
corner and then piss off into the distance. All he really had to do was
wait. But instead he got suckered into a classic braking screw-up on the
slowest corner of the track.

 

No way. not on a Honda on Michelins on that weekend. But he will again.

 

I've tried really hard to "like" Stoner, and it was interesting hearing
comments from Hodgson and Davies about what a great guy he is, etc. Then
he doesn't even shake hands in parc ferme, and even issues an idle threat
(perhaps?) from what I could make out...

Rossi: "This is the racing"
Stoner: "Yeah? We'll see"

Then he wonders why people don't like him.

Beforehand, I said to my Mrs, if it's all spread out by lap 10, I'm going
to bed. Suffice to say I was glued until the end. Especially as I'd just
finished watching the Supersport race from Brno as well. 2 brilliant
races.

Questions though:
1. Why was Randy Mamola not roaming around in pit lane, and instead stuck
in the commentary booth?
2. Why, for once, did we actually get decent pictures from Laguna Seca?
Normally, the colour/contrast is just wrong, yet this year, they were very
nice clear pictures. HD converted to PAL or simply PAL converted to NTSC
for the local market?
3. How can Michelin make such a screw up?

 

It was all good, riveting stuff. The 2 WSB and WSS from Brno were great.
The BSB races were great to watch. And of course the MotoGP was
exceptional. What a great day.

 

Sure the quality was ok, but did you not curse when the producer
followed Hayden, or Spies, for a few laps, when there was a ding dong
battle at the front? I guess it was an American producer - funny how
when the race is in Spain the (presumably Spanish) producer doesn't
follow some Spanish wildcard in 10th place...

<ducks, runs and hides from Mark>

 

To be fair, that usually happened when there was a slight gap, and we
didn't miss any of the action. But yes.

I do get pissed off though when they follow Stoner/Rossi/Pedrosa for a
couple of laps, when they're 10 seconds out in front of everyone else.
There's nothing to see there, yet there can be a right old battle lower
down the field. I recall a few times last year with Stoner's onboard
camera, showing sweet FA, which gets me pointlessly shouting at the TV.

Actually I think they do, and I expect it to happen, as annoying as it can
be at times.

 

Yup. At one point I had one eye on the TV and one on the MotoGP website
timing. I spotted that Stoner had got past Rossi before the finish line
but we were stuck watching some other battle.

 

Aw, sorry - I actually forgot you were at the races (d'oh!), and
wondered where your analysis post was.

So, just for you, I've analysised Rossi's improvement from QP to race.
There was some discussion on ukrm about whether Rossi (and team) had
deliberately sand-bagged in practice - I didn't think they had, purely
because it's impossible to do that and guarantee 2nd (as opposed to,
say 7th) in the chaos of the last 10 mins of QP. So, I go my
spreadsheet out and...

....it turns out that 22 of Vale's race laps were faster than his
fastest race tyre lap in qualifying. This started on lap 5 and he was
then faster than Q for *every* lap until lap 27 (with the single
exception of lap 24), by which time the race was won.

He made time up in all the sectors, as follows:
sector 1: faster on 23 laps than fastest time in qualifying
sector 2: faster on 13 laps than fastest time in qualifying
sector 3: faster on 19 laps than fastest time in qualifying
sector 4: faster on 9 laps than fastest time in qualifying

Combining the best individual sector time from qualifying to calc a
logical 'best possible' lap gives a 1:22.194. Eighteen of his race
laps were better than this 'best possible' lap, proving he wasn't
sand-bagging in qualifying. In fact his *average* lap time (excluding
lap 1), but including the last six laps (where he was cruising) was
only 3/100ths slower than his *best* lap in qualifying.

I have the spreadsheet available if you want...

 

That was in the press conference when he'd had time to collect his
thoughts and had spoken to Rossi on the podium. Either he'd worked out
what to say or somebody had told him to moderate his language a bit. Did
you see the body language or hear what he said in Parc Ferme to the BBC
in the first interview? We've seen riders in the same situation have to
cope with a smiling Rossi coming over to shake their hand and get a slap
on the back. Capirossi or Melandri would grin back and acknowledge
they'd been beaten but still be on a high from enjoying "the battle".
But from Stoner we get a whine that its some how unfair. We used to get
the same thing from Sete.

Yeah, of course its being blown up in a tabloid newspaper stylee. Stoner
is turning into someone to hate. To the point where some boorish members
of the Brit crowd will boo him and Stoner won't even turn up to the Day
of Champions. That's all a bit sad, but Stoner brings it on himself with
*his* behaviour. We think he's a whiny little git because he keeps
whining.[1]

Does anyone seriously believe that Rossi knew Stoner was so close in
that corner that he braked early as opposed to the previous 10 laps? The
only way Rossi could keep Stoner behind on the next straight was by
getting that corner perfect. The suggestion that Rossi caused that crash
is just stirring. That wasn't the only mistake Stoner was making
suggesting that having Rossi that close in front was rattling him some
and screwing his rhythm.

What is this straight fight you speak of? Rossi was in front when Stoner
went down. Remember?

Equally, there's no way to say Rossi *did* brake check him. Especially
given that Rossi was no slower round the corner and up the next straight
than he had been on the previous laps when Stoner got along side.

You're probably right. But let's hope Rossi works out his qualifying and
stays close to Stoner in the opening laps so we get some more proper
races. Stoner has to take points from Rossi every single weekend and
Rossi has to stop him. Any time it turns into a straight dog fight in
the closing laps Stoner is going to have to show that he can beat Rossi
to prove to himself as much as to us that he can actually do it. And
every time Rossi beats him with some questionable move its going to gnaw
away at him.

[1]Current nickname for Stoner on the Brit boards "Tiny Tears"

 

Kropper says it much better than I can

http://www.motogpmatters.com/report/2008/07/22/2008_motogp_laguna_seca_ra
ce_report_crun.html

 

Some of us watched the Brno WSB and WSS before finishing the meal with
MotoGP. We saw people leaning on each other, riding round the outside,
stuffing it up the inside, making passes that resulted in losing it
again on the very next corner, running onto the dirt and saving it. So
by the time we got to Stoner complaining about dangerous riding it just
seemed like business as usual. As one guy on the PB forum said, maybe he
should have ridden in WSB to toughen him up a bit.

Brno is big enough that there's plenty of places to pass and then just
run away. But it's also big, fast and ballsy enough with complexes that
if the bikes are close, the other guy will just come straight back at
you. And the straights are not quite long enough with fast enough entry
that a top end advantage doesn't quite assure dominance.

Sigh. 4 weeks to wait. For Rossi, Stoner and us. And 4 weeks for
everyone who's hurting to heal a bit.

 

So, of the four, you only think #1 is questionable, yes? And I don't
think that is - if you think forcing someone to sit it up as you come
by is a reason for criticsm, then I'm surprised you like motorcycle
racing at all.

As far as I'm concerned, all the passes were good. The only thing we
might agree on is Rossi running off the track at the corkscrew, was 'a
little out of control', and that was hardly deliberate.

 

According to your earlier post, it happened once.

And I love the way you use phrases like "there's little doubt", to
bolster your point of view. There's *plenty* of doubt - I've watched
and re-watched those passes, and I think they're just fine.

Perhaps Casey's problem is that he's just used to overtaking people
down the straights.

 

For what it's worth, Rossi's time thru the last sector on the lap (26)
that Stoner crashed was 24.518. This compares with the previous 5
laps as follows:

lap 21 : 24.566
lap 22 : 24.712
lap 23 : 24.614
lap 24 : 24.417
lap 25 : 24.554
lap 26 : 24.518

So, on lap 26 he was faster thru T4 than all but one of the previous 5
laps. As Mark says, this doesn't really prove anything, but there's
certainly no evidence that Rossi *did* brake test him.

The elephant in the room that Mark is ignoring is Rossi's pace. He
went *so* much faster than in practice (see my other post, I'm not
going to repeat it all here).

 

Forcing someone to alter something they are doing does not constitute
"dirty tricks". Ever hear the term "block pass"? If you are
significantly faster than the person in front of you, it's probably
then possible to get around them without them having to do anything
differently. But when you get to the sharp end of the field of a GP
race, sometimes you have to "force" your way past. There's nothing
wrong with that. To me, dirty racing is when you're being
intentionally run off the track or the passer cannonballs themselves
into a corner with complete disregard for what will happen at the apex
-- no plan, extremely high chances of the passer him/herself not
making it, yet going on the inside of others. The most questionable
move by Rossi I saw in this race was going off in corkscrew and then
having to get back on the pavement. But there's no way I would call
that intentional disregard for anyone's safety and indeed Rossi
gathered it up and got out of the way leaving Stoner enough room to
stay on the pavement as soon as he was able. If the situation was
reversed or if it was some other rider, as you suggest, I'd have the
same reaction. In fact, there's a very similar corner at another
track in California called Thunderhill and, when I first raced there,
I ran off into the dirt coming down the hill and had to straightline
it back on the pavement in front of another bike. I felt bad and I
later spoke to the guy I "cut off". He knew perfectly well that I was
going to come back out in front of him, given the nature of that
section and so wasn't entirely surprised by it. If a club racer can
handle it, I don't see a big issue with this at the GP level.

I felt those guys produced a hell of a race and I would have loved for
Stoner to not crash and stay with Rossi to the end. I'm a Rossi fan,
but it wouldn't have mattered to me who would have won after all the
scraps we got to watch. It was fantastic. I don't blame Stoner for
being a bit sour immediately after -- it's hard to swallow that kind
of defeat. I think he's been a much more humble and personable guy
this year compared to last, so we'll see how things go between those
two going forward.

 

I guess I don't.

Ultimately, if you crash avoiding someone in front of you, it's your
fault. It's impossible for anyone outside Rossi's head to know
whether he did something on purpose, which leads me to the following
conclusion - if eyewitnesses can't tell if Rossi braked early, then if
he did, it was by such a small margin that Stoner should have been
able to deal with it.

I don't think anyone's remotely suggesting that Stoner should do that.
He got beat, principally because he made a mistake. That might be
difficult to swallow, but he'll manage it.