Question to those who know a bit about mechanics/auto electrics

My CBR600F (1998) as reliable as it normally is stopped starting just
before Christmas. Only just got time today (and only an hour at that)
to take a look. Symptoms are that bike doesn't start (!) and
sometimes after hitting the ignition switch there is a clicking sound
other times not. So far I have charged battery, two batteries in
fact, tried them both and have the same symptoms. I then checked the
relay (took it off, gave it a good clean because there were some blue
powder deposits on the relay unit connections and I also tested it in
isolation using a couple wires to a spare battery and the relay
clicked like a good en). Next I'm assuming I need to tackle the
starter motor.

But I was wondering before I go ahead checking the starter motor if

1. anyone in here knows of a common fault on the CBR600F (like the
reg / rect that I had to replace last year - that going is very common
on this bike) that I can also check and

2. does anyone know why when everything is connected as normal after
hitting the ignition switch sometimes I can hear the relay clicking
and other times when I hit the ignition there is no sound?

Ta

 

Check the earth bonding. On a nine year old bike I bet one of the earth
straps is corroded.

Simplest way to check is to take a jump start lead directly from the
battery negative to the casing of the starter motor. Press the starter
button and I bet the motor fires up.

 

Good advice... but my money would be on the motor spinning rather than
firing for a while...

 

wrote in 4ax.com:

better now, Mr Picky?

 

Absolutely spiffing, thank you.

 

Thanks fellas I'll check. Nice little earth test trick, nice one.
I'll let you's know.

 

What Wessie says, plus the chance of the relay contacts being burned so
there's no proper connection to the starter. Short out the contacts with
a screwdriver and see if the starter spins.

If nothing happens, and you're sure the connections are all good, both
pos and earth, at the relay and the starter, then you're looking at a
buggered/jammed starter.

 

The OP says that they have tried two batteries. On ca only presume at
least one of them was a known good fully charged example.

I have done this many times without damaging anything but perhaps I am
just lucky. Before I sussed a problem with the Nordwest needing a softer
plug and careful setting of the air gap between the alternator rotor and
the CDI ignition sensor it was often the only way to persuade it in to
life. The extra amps of a car battery would spin the HC big bore motor
over quicker.

Care must be taken with polarity naturally. I know of at least one hill
climb bike (Ducati) which is started from an external car battery via a
quick connector of the type used on forklift trucks (this technique is
also used a lot on the big single seater cars).
--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Colin Wilson wrote

Yes and no.

 

I concur.

Don't have the car engine running like you would with a car to car jump
start. The superior output from the car alternator might overwhelm the
regulator in the bike, especially on a Honda...

Either have the car battery as a free standing slave or ensure the engine
is off. I've done this quite a few times, especially on my CBR600 in
winter.

 

Sorry fella what do you mean by shorting out the contacts? The relay
has a positive connection in from the battery, for the sake of
argument on the right, then another cable out, again for the sake of
argument on the left and I think this is out to the starter motor.
But then at the top is the 4 pronged clip with the fuse inside - it
was two of those prongs that I bridged with a pos and a neg from a
battery to force it to click. Which contacts are you referring to
please?

Talking to a lad today and he reckond I could bridge the gab between
the left and right connections with a screwdriver as a test to see if
the engine starts.

 

That's it exactly. Short out the two main terminals.

 

Here's an update. Freshly charged battery. Disconnected the two main
terminals from the relay solenoid (+ from battery and cable to starter
motor) and touched them together. Sometimes when I connected the
terminals together nothing would happen (apart from a spark or two!)
but other times I could hear the starter motor *labouring* to turn
over then it would stop. Just to make sure there was no way there
could be a lack of power from the battery I connected my battery
charger to the battery on the bike. The same *labouring* sound in the
starter motor.

So, next task for me is to learn what possible things could be wrong
with the starter motor in the haynes manual. But a question - if I
could sometimes hear the starter motor at least attempting to turn but
then stopping, could it be a bit of dirt or other crap that's possibly
stopping it?

 

Connecting just a charger while trying to crank it over won't help. Are
you sure the freshly charged battery is actually any good?

--

+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

 

I'm almost certain as I have tried other tests with two batteries and
the one in particular that I used tonight is only 6 months old. But
to make sure I could do another test tomorrow where I could put the
jump leads from our car battery on to my bike (just in case both
batteries might be damaged).

 

Wessie, thanks. Your earth bonding test was on my list to check after
doing a couple more tests on the relay solenoid. On the final test I
connected the + battery terminal straight to the starter motor
terminal and I could hear the starter motor attempting to start,
albeit in a *labouring* way, i.e. I could hear it turn slightly then
stop. A some other times I would put the terminals together and
nothing would happen. Just to make sure that both the batteries I'm
using in the test aren't nackered I'm gonna run jump cables from my
car battery to my bike, see if that makes a difference.

 

Have you ruled out the dodgy earth yet? The above process of connecting +
volts to the starter motor is still relying on a return path to the battery
via the bike's earth cabling.

 

Aye Wessie mentioned that I can test the earth by running a jump cable
straight from the outside of the starter motor to the negative
terminal of the battery. Definately next on my list. Thanks Champ.

 

Aye fella just replied to your (original) post letting you know that's
next on my list tomorrow. Only had an hour spare when I got back at
gone 9pm tonight and it was too frickin cold in the garage to carry
on. Next test tomorrow. Need to pull more fairing off. Joy.

 

Ah, you got in before me.

You'd think he would've got the message after I suggested it days ago and
others of an electrical bent agreed.

After checking battery condition & terminals it is always the next check on
my list as it is so fucking easy to do! And usually the problem, unless
it's a BMW[1]

[1] I diagnosed a fellow traveller's faulty starter motor on an R1100R on
the shores of Lake Garda by swapping the unit from my bike to his.