Qatar GP

Actually don't mind me. I'm probably talking bollocks. I must be getting
old if I can't even remember last season.

So when was the last time somebody high sided a Ducati? Oh. Wait.

 

Explain why at the beginning of last season Rossi's bike was running
the rear axle right at the front of the adjustment range in the
swingarm.

 

So your whole theory about something being wrong with the Ducati
centers around Hayden not being faster to adapt? That seems a tad
partial, even by your standards. So if you were Ducati and you had
someone that just won a race as dominantly as Stoner just did, you'd
be going back to the drawing board and redesigning the bike because
the other riders didn't follow in second, third and fourth etc? Maybe
you would.

Pedrosa is still running majorly injured. I wouldn't call it a smooth
transition without isses and crowned by success.

Yeah, these are mini bikes, only setting a pace no other bike in no
other series matches. Riiight. Darn, why don't they just have 9 year
old kids ride the 800s Mark? That would be even better right?

Nor does any other bike in the starting grid these days. Only the
Ducati with Stoner seems to be among the fastest with some
consistency. So, pray, tel Ducati what is wrong with their bike.

Now I will be the first to say that the series is not at its most
entertaining in its current format. But it's still at its fastest
ever, and these bikes are a *lot* faster than the 500s ever where, and
the 990s. The simple fact is that the fastest way around a track is
not sliding and fighting a bike, it is riding it as smoothly as
possible within exisiting engineering limits. There is no doubt about
the fact the current 800s are the fastest bikes ever, and because of
engineering advances the smoothest riders happen to be riding up top
these days. Mind you, Rossi has shown he can basically ride anything
very fast, and I have a feeling so would Stoner. I don't think anyone
else in the starting grid these days is quite at their level these
days, and of course the engineering teams will do what they can to
support these two guys in their duel for top spot. Tough for the other
guys, but it's not like when Rainey and Schwantz were duking it out
Japense engineering teams spent sleepless nights because other weren't
riding any closer. It's the nature of racing, and no huge conpsiracy
theory is required for it.

 

Maybe because they are the only ones being developed?
You don't think that if they had stayed with 990s and been continuing
development that they couldn't be going as fast or even faster?
Bikes get faster every year even without displacement changes.

Bruce

 

Yes, I would. To start, since you seem to be struggling with basic
comprehension, my argument isn't "centered around Hayden not being
faster to adapt". Let me keep it simple here. First, there are a
couple other guys you should consider, named Loris Capirossi and Marco
Melandri. Loris used to be Ducati's #1, in fact he was that all
through the 990 era. He won every race won by a Ducati during that
time (well, at least until the last one), six in all. In 2006 he might
well have been world champion had he not tangled with his teammate at
the start of the Catalunyan GP - in the races before that and after
the summer break he averaged 16.8 points per race, and the champion
averaged 14.8 over the season, but injury and recovery had him
averaging only 5.4 points per race from Catalunya thru Laguna.
Anyway, he finished only 23 points behind the champion in 3rd, 134
ahead of his teammate (who was 13th), won 3 races and was on the box 8
times.

Then came '07 and the 800. That year he won only once, finished on the
box 4 times, averaged only 9.2 points per race, and was 7th and 201
points down on the champion - most importantly, his teammate, who won
10 times and was on the podium 14 times. Okay, kind of suspicious, and
speculation ran in a number of directions, but the most prominant
theory was that he couldn't deal with the new electronics package,
whereas his teammate just did what he was told and let it do the work.

So Loris is asked to move out, and Ducati hires this guy Melandri in
'08. Now he's also fairly accomplished, also a former 250 champion,
and a winner of 5 races in MotoGP. In '05 he finished 2nd in the
championship on a lease Honda as the #2 on his team, and won twice. In
'07 he won 3 times, was on the box 7 times, and finished a point
behind Capirossi in 4th - not bad for a guy on a lease team. In '07 he
moved to Bridgestones (good) but got stuck riding the lease version of
the RC212V (bad) and was winless, on the box only 3 times, slipped to
5th in points. So he moves to Ducati last year, has a best finish of
5th, is in the top 10 only 3 times, and ends up 17th in points (only
2.8 points per race!). While his teammate finishes 2nd with more than
five times the number of points, 6 wins, 11 podiums. Now we're
starting to see a pattern.

So Melandri and Ducati agree to part company, and they move on to
Hayden. He'd won his first GP in '05, finished on the box in the last
4 races, and took 3rd in points as #2 at Repsol Honda. In '06 he won
the championship, won a couple races, and finished on the box 10
times. In '07 and '08 he had the trifecta of bad luck, being Pedrosa's
teammate, on the 212 midget bike, and on Michelin tires, so was
winless, had only 5 podiums and finished 8th and 6th in points. Now
he's on the Ducati, and in the opening race he was 2.1 seconds down on
his teammate in FP1, 2.9 seconds down in FP2, 2.9 down in QP, and his
best lap was 2.4 down on his teammate's best in the race, where he
finished 11th while his teammate won. Hayden's best race lap was 1.3
seconds down on his '08 best on the Honda; Melandri's '08 best was 0.7
down on his '07 best on that Honda. Are we getting the picture yet?

So why should Ducati be concerned? Well, Stoner could get hurt. And
since they can't seem to figure out why these other guys have so many
problems on their bike, do they really know why Stoner has none? And
they look bad ruining so many successful careers.

I was talking about his switch late last year.

Y'know, you might be on to something there. Of course they have that
irritating rule that requires a rider to be at least 18...

Do I have to start over again? Nah...

 

Not only that, but also tire development, which I think makes bikes
faster year to year more than anything. Look at WSB - if I'm not
mistaken, Hodgson still held the circuit record at Valencia going into
this year's race. So who thinks Hodgson on that '03 first-year 999 was
faster than Bayliss on the 1098R last year? That's all down to tires,
and what switching to crappy spec tires has done to lap times in that
series. But Hodgson's race best was 1.8 seconds faster than the
fastest lap only 3 years earlier, under competitive tires.

 

Mark N muses:

Replace "Stoner" with "Rossi" and you get an approximation
of the same story. Rossi's stable mates have done a bit better
but not 1-2-3-4.

Maybe it's just that Stoner is a better rider than the other
guys on the Ducati.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

Really? please tell who those riders were that did great on other
bikes and/or previous generations of the Yam, who are now miles
behind on the current spec Yam?

could be.

 

Mark N kept it to a coupla paragraphs so even a dodo like me could
plow through it:

There are two, ok maybe three people that have a part in that.

The rider. Didn't get it to work, didn't get the engineers to
understand
and fix the problem, didn't figure out how to ride it like the guy
that
can make it work, didn't say **** this and go play in a different
sandbox.

The crew chief didn't speak the right language (not italian, english,
whatever - but rider mumbliing), didn't know how to turn that into
changes that made the bike work for rider X.

The rider's agent didn't get the rider another ride in another sandbox
when it became apparent that the rider/crew couldn't make the bike
work for the guy.

Ducati is supposed to go off on a new development tangent while
they've
got a bike that wins races and championships? Seems like a not so
good idea.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.