Punch Up

So it's well on the way. Neither do I have a narrow definition of
Democracy.

It could develop a Parliament running parallel to the Monarchy and
slowly over time cede power. Sounds familiar.

Yeah right, the normal Arab has the same human traits as you and me.

Eh no! they tried this before and took such a kicking they won't ever
be doing it again

That's what I meant. There is much of that I quite like. Bet you don't
though.

 

The Older Gentleman wrote:
..

Really? Only if one were dim enought to launch a Scud, with an HE warhead.
If one were to use it as designed, then it is effective.
The Katyushas used by Hizbullah are quite effective just using HE.

 

See there you go, buttons

 

Well OK I don't like Blair

 

You are not wrong old man. Just read up on why Balfour made his 1917
declaration. The jewish lobby had the world by the financial balls way
back then. If there is one true Conspiracy it must be that one.

 

Don't tell me - that's why Germany lost World War I ?
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Hog wrote

Granted but be careful who you tell, they have eyes and ears everywhere.

 

It's labyrinthine in it's complexity! wiki seems to have a good write
up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration,_1917

 

"Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level
of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest
annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and
is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well
over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in
direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget,
and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially
striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita
income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.

"Other recipients get their money in quarterly installments, but Israel
receives its entire appropriation at the beginning of each fiscal year and
can thus earn interest on it. Most recipients of aid given for military
purposes are required to spend all of it in the US, but Israel is allowed to
use roughly 25 per cent of its allocation to subsidise its own defence
industry. It is the only recipient that does not have to account for how the
aid is spent, which makes it virtually impossible to prevent the money from
being used for purposes the US opposes, such as building settlements on the
West Bank. Moreover, the US has provided Israel with nearly $3 billion to
develop weapons systems, and given it access to such top-drawer weaponry as
Blackhawk helicopters and F-16 jets. Finally, the US gives Israel access to
intelligence it denies to its Nato allies and has turned a blind eye to
Israel's acquisition of nuclear weapons."

 

The people that granted it weren't the owners.

Would you like to buy the moon?

 

We didn't nick the plans.

 

Bollocks, they're not. They're inefficient, inaccurate, and have caused
little material damage and few deaths.

Their main 'advantage' is psychological. As actual weapons, they're
crap.

 

Yeah right. Mubarak only passed the amendment to appease his
opposition.

I take it you've never been to Saudi? There's not a cat's chance in
hell of that ever happening. When the royal family get 25% of the value
of *every* barrel of oil sold, there's not much incentive to develop a
Parliament (which isn't composed of family!)

And? Your point?

It depends who they try to push next. Syria and Iran won't be such a
pushover, believe me. This recent "loss" against Hezbollah will have
boosted the morale of all Arabic nations. Because let's face it. Israel
lost. They couldn't route out Hezbollah. They couldn't stop the rockets
falling in Israel. They lost. The only way they'll win against Syria
and Iran will be nuclear. If you could call that winning.

There are lot's of things I don't like about Shariah law but what I
think doesn't matter. If Arabic states want to rule themselves under
Shariah law, then that's their choice and I respect that.

 

I suspect he means the Arab neighbours don't acknowledge the state of
Israel.

 

So as not to confuse things further I will deal with your points in the
order that you make them rather than intersperse my comments with an already
confusing thread.

Israel's plans to deal with Hezbollah were/are an open secret e.g
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21/MNG2QK396D1.DTL&hw=kalman&sn=001&sc=1000
The extra 15,000 were because the original plan didn't quite work out as
they had expected.

You appear to be suggesting that the Hezbollah representatives in the
Lebanese parliament were not democratically elected - what is the basis for
this assertion? They won overwhelmingly in South Lebanon in elections that
were scrutinised by external observers.

As for "The Palestinians do not want the State that is available too them in
the real world though" - what state would that be then?

As for Israel "trying" to deal with their own fundamentalist nutters - would
that be by putting fencing round the Palestinian land that they are
occupying and arming the occupiers?

As for Turkey, Kuwait and Dubai, none of them are habitually at war with
their immediate neighbours and all of them have substantial populations that
are deeply rooted in the region. One of the major problems that Israel has
is that so many of its population is first or second generation immigrants
to the region.

 

And once the dust has died down, the rest of the Lebanese are going to
blame the Hizbollah for the recking of thier country. I just hope they
don't become as polarized as they were in the '70's and '80's, the
last thing Lebanon now needs is another civil war...

 

I'd go along with that. I'd even go along with the idea that it was
done on purpose as they knew exactly what they were getting themselves
into.

 

Hang on a mo. Being Israeli means that you're on a reserve list.
Reservists know that they can be called up at any time. So this seems
quite feasible to me.

I fail to see your point.

What's wrong?

What a load of bollox. Palestine was a massive region until '47. Then
once the British Government handed over the mandate to the UN, the UN
consequently chopped up the region into smaller sections.

I can imagine that the Palestinians at the time, were very pissed off.
In fact, yes, they were so pissed off that they had a war in '48. In
'49, the Armistice eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory and it
was divided between Syria, Egypt, Jordan and Israel.

So can you seriously say that the Palestinians don't want their own
state?

Most? I don't think so:

http://www.export.gov.il/Eng/_Articles/Article.asp?ArticleID=2885&Catego
ryID=798

http://www.mof.gov.il/beinle/ie/israe_1.htm

http://www.israeltrade.org/

Yes, Israel is very trying.

Turkey maybe. Only from an economic viewpoint. Dubai and Kuwait are not
faux-European states. They are very much Arabic states.

I'd steer away from the Sun, IIWY.

 

I don't think that will happen. The civil war is still fresh in their
minds. Even though it's been well over 20 years ago...

 

No, no, I was referring to the US supporting Palestine. I was being
sarcastic/ironic though because the US doesn't recognise Palestine as a
state.