Punch Up

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Hog, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. Hog

    Kim Bolton Guest

    The thing about Dresden that seems to have been forgotten is that
    Harris did not want Bomber Command to go to the Eastern cities;
    although within range it was all but beyond the technical facilities
    available at the time. Harris stalled for months against the pressure
    from Churchill for raids on those cities. Pressure from Stalin in turn
    led to Churchill all but ordering Harris to undertake the suggested
    operations.

    To accomplish the target marking, a Mosquito bomber had to be
    specially equipped with a LORAN navigation system, and to fly at
    maximum operational height over Dresden in order to receive enough
    signal. When the Mosquito was over the correct target, it had to dive
    vertically in order to release its target markers correctly. The
    navigator was screaming with pain from pressure in his eardrums.

    After the raids, a massive 'spin' exercise took place, virtually
    placing the blame for the choice of these cities on the shoulders of
    Bomber Command, it being conveniently glossed over that it was the
    result of pressure from the Russians.

    Although very near the end of the war, the German authorities did a
    remarkable job in identifying the dead, and by the time the Russians
    arrived in the city, some 130,000 dead had been counted. The Commissar
    in charge of the city took the document from the German responsible
    for collating the figures, and calmly struck off the leading figure.
    No-one wanted to tell Stalin how effective Bomber Command had been.
     
    Kim Bolton, Aug 23, 2006
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  2. Hog

    Dan White Guest

    For how long, and to what purpose? You're still not accounting for the
    Japanese mindset of loss of face from surrender. They simply *would not*
    have surrendered no matter how long they were isolated. Which would have
    meant famine and disease running rampant throughout the country. Millions
    would have died of starvation and lack of access to medical help.

    It was only the use of the atomic bomb which allowed the Japanese commanders
    to save face and surrender. The Emporer announced that "... the enemy has
    recently used a most cruel explosive. The frequent killing of innocents and
    the effect of destitution it entails are incalculable". By declaring the
    atomic bomb to be dishonourable, he was able to save face by surrendering
    and effectively taking the moral high ground.

    Even after the Emporer broadcast his acceptance of the surrender terms,
    around 1,000 officers attempted to storm the imperial palace to stop the
    recording being played again, as they wanted to die in combat. That's the
    mentality that was being faced, which we just can't seem to get our heads
    round in the west. They genuinely would have preferred to die than to be
    shamed in defeat.
     
    Dan White, Aug 23, 2006
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  3. Hog

    Hog Guest

    The Yanks could have detonated one offshore near the imperial palace as
    an example
     
    Hog, Aug 23, 2006
  4. Dat ol' Bushido Blues.

    As it happens, a large percentage of the civilian population was sick
    and tired of the war by then [1] - it was the military doing all the
    bullshitting about dying with a sword in their hands - but it would have
    been difficult to dislodge the military from power and restore a true
    civilian government and quite another task to negotiate a surrender.

    As an aside: putting myself into the mindset of a Japanese, pre-war; I'd
    have been mightily pissed off at the Americans sticking their noses in
    where they didn't belong and might even have attacked a naval base or
    two to teach them a lesson.


    [1] Indeed, a surprisingly large number weren't keen on the war at all,
    even from day one.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Aug 23, 2006
  5. "We spent 5 Billion dollars and you want us to boil some fish with it?"

    Putting aside all humanitarian concerns for a moment - I found the sight
    of the devastation caused by one relatively small and inefficient
    nuclear weapon very impressive indeed. I can only imagine the effect
    that had on the rulers of the country, especially when it became known
    that one plane with one weapon did that. They were under the impression
    the Americans had a supply line full of them and weren't to know that
    only two were available.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Aug 23, 2006
  6. Hog

    raden Guest

    But there is a very simple message

    "you will never live in peace here"
     
    raden, Aug 29, 2006
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