Political naivety

Not so, but if I am mistaken then I'm sure you can explain my
errors or omissions?

riccip

 

I agree entirely.

riccip

 

IIRC the Norwegians call this "fax democracy"- their laws aren't
thrashed out in debate, they just pop out of a fax.

 

Not at all. The economic reality is that we import far more from
the EU than we sell there, so we can dictate our own terms or
take our custom elsewhere. They need us more than we need them.

If you are suggesting the uncivilised rabble would go to war with
us then maybe we really should get out now. We'd stuff 'em
anyway, we always do, and we can call in a few favours from our
friends across the pond.

Denmark for one. Many of the ex-USSR satellite states aren't over
keen on swapping one totalitarian master for another.

If that were true we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Believe it or not so do I. We just have different views on how
that can best be achieved.

riccip

 

What little we get back comes in 'grants' we are forced to beg
for, and have no control over, for things like speed humps. The
rest is in farming subsidies to coerce our farmers into growing
rape in the yellow fields of England. When did you, or anyone you
know, buy a bottle of rape seed oil?

The European rights chapter has been a disaster that even New
Labour regrets. We already had a proud history of human rights at
the heart of our legal sytem. Now we have a recipe for making
lawyers rich at taxpayer's expense while even the Home Secretary
can't do a damned thing about the likes of Abu Hamza. And guess
who's tapping millions from this plump vein? Cherie Blair, the
Prime Minister's wife.

riccip

 

Do you mean yes to staying as Airstrip One?

I'm of the opinion that we live in the 51st state of the United States
- but without the rights given to the other 50 states.
We're the poor, offshore one with the shitty weather!

 

When was the last time you, or anyone you know, bought a sack of
wheat?

Or a barrel of crude oil?

What a fucking stupid point, from a fucking stupid halfwit.


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If we're not /in/ Europe, that's the only realistic alternative.

Correctamundo. If we're in Europe, we'll have more clout with the yanks.
If we're tight with the yanks, we'll have more say in Europe. We need to be
moving toward a position of being a bridge between Europe and the US.
No-one seems to have any sort of long-term aim in view, but IMHO that's
where we should be going - to the centre of things. This won't be achieved
by Tony Blair fellating George Bush.

 

riccip was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

You mean, the bit where it says that employees have rights at all and
aren't supposed to be treated like cattle on their way to the
slaughterhouse?

 

riccip was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

Not unless you can (a) convince them that Bin Laden has set up his
latest base in Brussels and (b) finish paying off what you owe them
for the last time.

 

riccip was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

Yes, I can see that having human rights apply to all humans including
the ones who hold radical view you don't like is a bit of a bummer.

 

Spanish *naval* vessels. Proof please.

Italy and Parma ham. Proof please.

France and food embargoes, apart from beef. Proof please.

What a load of fucking bollocks. Joan Collins has never shown any
interest in politics to the extent of not voting. Glenda Jackson is a
political 'animal'. You can't compare the two.

Joan Collins has never voted and doesn't live here, on that basis what's
her interest?

I'm sure she would, I'm sure she would.

And, apart from La Ciccliona (sp?) name one other female porn star
that's been elected in Italy.

Also point out where anyone's suggested we're supposed to follow the
Italian's lead.

 

So you don't know what comes back. Fair enough.

And having no control over... well if we all had your views we'd have no
control over it. We can only influence our destiny by being involved.

The speed humps- I'd like some proof of this.

The farming subsidies do more than subsidise oil seed rape. Look at
milk, beef, eggs, potatoes (for example)- these are all the subject of
quotas where a base price is guaranteed. Also look at set-aside where
farmers are paid to let fields lie fallow and not grow things that we
don't need; this has to be funded and it is- by Europe. You appear to
know nothing about this.

You've also not picked up on regional aid which is another source of
income from the EC into regions like, for example, Cornwall although the
recent expansion has limited the amount of aid available.

I note you've spouted generalisations and not given a single example of
where things have been 'bent'. I presume this is because you can't.


A proud history of human rights in the UK??? You're surely having a
laugh. We're not even citizens FFS. We have those rights our
Government decides we should have no more, no less. And the tradition
was such a proud one, just look at all the miscarriages of justice in
the 70s and 80s related to the Irish situation.

Regarding Abu Hamza- your true colours are showing, you are a nasty
little racist aren't you. Admit it.

I'd rather live in a country where we had irritants like Abu Hamza than
one where free speech was outlawed.

And regarding Cherie Blair making millions, again proof please. I
thought she did a fair amount of pro-bono work.


Just to make it easy for you, I'd like you to justify:

1. The grants we get from Europe for installing speed bumps.
2. The source for the statement that Cherie Blair is making millions
from work she's done due to our implementing European Human Rights
legislation in our laws.

 

Not really because it was a lot of countries in Europe who were involved
in this.

Regarding the Germans attempting to invade us I must have missed that
news real. Was that what the battle of Hastings was all about?

 

That's true, I remember it well. I voted 'yes' to staying in Europe.

I voted yes even though I could see perfectly well that federalism lay
in the future? I can't really be that more intelligent than all my
fellows. You lot all seem to assume that a federal Europe is a Bad
Thing. Am I the only one here who would welcome it?

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No, you're not the only one. My perception of this thread has been that
there are only a few who are taking an 'anti-EC stance' in any case.

I don't understand how people think we can become independent. If we
pull out of the EC then we'll surely lose a lot of our manufacturing
industry since this has been placed in Britain precisely because we are
in the EC. If we pull out the other EC members would apply import duty
to our products at the point of entry and hence the product price would
have to be reduced since in most cases the selling price is fixed by the
market. Consequently the likes of Honda etc. would move to somewhere
else (Eastern Europe?) where they have a better tarrif position. Don't
forget that we're a high-wage economy compared to other European
countries (in my trade in raw currency we're paid around 20-30% more) so
our cost base is higher than that of most mainland countries.

I really can't believe anyone can see a future which doesn't have a
United States of Europe. If this is the case then *surely* we need to
be fully engaged to steer the shape of it to our national interests.
Simply saying "no" won't achieve this.

 

We already have adequate employment laws to protect our workers.
I mean, for example, the bit about restoring union power, working
fewer hours whether you like it or not and 9 months paternity
leave for fathers. The price of such daft ideas is fewer jobs and
higher taxes.

A socialist EU superstate will not work. Over the last 10 years
the EU’s unemployment rate has been proportionately TWICE that of
the United States. While the US has created 30 million new
private-sector jobs the EU has created a net achievement of zero.
Britain has enjoyed employment growth only because we are, for
now, free to be competitive.

riccip

 

It's nasty, inferior, Johnny-Foreigner corruption and doesn't have a
lion stamped on it.

 

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:29:14 +0100, wrote:

[snip euro rants]

Look Steve - it's easy. All the proof is in the Daily Mail, Daily
Express and the Sun. Just look back through the archive.

I'd just chill if I was you. No need getting so worked up when all those
assertions *must* be true. Go and heat up some petrol in a microwave.
You know you want to.

 

Sorry but I don't hold with putting the rights of known
terrorists above those of our own people.

riccip