Political naivety

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Eiron, Jun 19, 2004.

  1. Eiron

    sweller Guest

    Even then only a tiny minority had it until the mid 19th century.
     
    sweller, Jun 19, 2004
    #21
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  2. No it is not bollocks. Europe is not a key issue in UK general
    elections. Things like the economy, employment, tax, the health service,
    education are the key things that people vote about. Even issues like
    transport that I wish were given more credence rank higher than Europe.
    There is years of evidence and spectacular defeats for parties with an
    anti europe stance to support my view.

    Just because people have had a chance to vote and protest last week does
    not mean that the loony parties like the uk independence party stand any
    chance whatsoever in a general election.

    To leave the EU is not a credible policy and it would cause untold
    economic damage. Why do you think that the party of big business - the
    tories - have never had such a position as official election policy,
    even under dear old Maggie "I'm not for turning" Thatcher?
    You are entitled to your view but I disagree.
     
    Paul Corfield, Jun 19, 2004
    #22
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  3. Eiron

    riccip Guest

    Of course we have self-rule. In the British Parliament every one
    of the 659 members are elected by British voters.

    In the European Parliament we can vote for just 87 seats out of
    786.

    riccip
     
    riccip, Jun 19, 2004
    #23
  4. Eiron

    sweller Guest

    Yes, yes, so it seems. But what controls their actions...
     
    sweller, Jun 19, 2004
    #24
  5. Eiron

    riccip Guest

    You are entitled to your opinion while it's still a free country.
    In years to come as an EU citizen I may be able to have you
    arrested for infringing my human rights and discriminating
    against the stupid.
    Neither have you. That's the real problem.

    riccip
     
    riccip, Jun 19, 2004
    #25
  6. riccip wrote
    That is what they thought they voted for. The reality was that they
    were voting to join something that was founded from the start to evolve
    into a federal Europe. Which was why, at the time, I was surprised they
    voted yes. Although maybe it will turn out that we weren't as Little
    Englander in our mentality as a later generations accuse.

    It does to those who didn't bother to pay attention.

    You miss the point. The thousands of years of slavery at the hands of a
    privileged unelected elite have gone, hopefully forever. It has been
    replaced by what is developing in Europe at the moment.

    Blur isn't missing from the country again to negotiate whether we are in
    or out of this particular game but for our slice of the action in the
    next stage of it.

    We *are* having a constitution, whether we like it or not and what we
    get to vote on will be the deal Blur and his team bring back from
    whatever foreign country the useless **** has travelled to in our name.

    If you are considering/supporting a no vote because you want out or a
    yes vote because you want to remain in then you are little but a deluded
    fool.
     
    steve auvache, Jun 19, 2004
    #26
  7. Eiron

    deadmail Guest

    He has a mandate from the General election. The recent elections were
    for another issue. Whether he uses that mandate or not is another
    matter.
    Hmm, independance for the Bank of England- pretty brave move.
    Increasing fuel taxation, pretty brave. Adding a 1% NI levy on all
    earnings over (whatever) also pretty brave. Going to war in the Gulf
    regardless of the electorate's view also brave.

    I don't necessarily support these examples but they weren't the action
    of someone without courage.
     
    deadmail, Jun 19, 2004
    #27
  8. Eiron

    Ben Guest

    Liz? If she wanted to?
     
    Ben, Jun 19, 2004
    #28
  9. Eiron

    riccip Guest

    If you want to bring history into this debate remember half a
    century ago Germany gassed 6 million Jews while attempting to
    invade us. Today they have 14% more Euro MPs than we have.

    In 1655 Cromwell awarded equal rights to the Jewish people. The
    rights of all British citizens have been enshrined in the Magna
    Carta until a couple of years ago when New Labour began
    dismantling it. Under a federal Europe it would lie in tatters.

    riccip
     
    riccip, Jun 19, 2004
    #29
  10. Cuntybollox wrote
    Fucking capitalist boot licker. I want us to be members of a full
    blooded United Peoples European State.

    Although there is something to be said for a State of United European
    Peoples.
     
    steve auvache, Jun 19, 2004
    #30
  11. Eiron

    deadmail Guest

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. I presume that you're suggesting it
    looked a little camp? Well by today's standards, yes. By 1981's
    standards? Well, yes. I had long blond hair at the time to top off the
    ensemble. Happy days.
     
    deadmail, Jun 19, 2004
    #31
  12. Eiron

    deadmail Guest

    I think you're onto something there, old chap.
     
    deadmail, Jun 19, 2004
    #32
  13. riccip wrote
    It would have been nearer 19% if they hadn't have dealt with the Jewish
    problem. With hindsight you must think that Hitler did us a favour.
     
    steve auvache, Jun 19, 2004
    #33
  14. Eiron

    Lozzo Guest

    steve auvache says...
    SPLITTER!
     
    Lozzo, Jun 19, 2004
    #34
  15. Eiron

    deadmail Guest

    1. What does the second world war have to do with this discussion.
    Germany today is a very civilised country.

    2. They have a population of (from memory) about 80 million. We have a
    population of about 60 million in the UK. For things to be equitable
    then I guess they need to have 1/3rd more Euro MPs than us. By your
    figures they seem to be under-represented.
    You voted for the UK Independence Party, didn't you?
     
    deadmail, Jun 19, 2004
    #35
  16. Eiron

    riccip Guest

    Of course not. However even with Brown at the helm I wouldn't put
    money on another Labour victory.
    I'm not so sure. Switzerland and Norway do proportionately more
    trade with the EU than us without being members while independent
    assessments have found no net gain from EU membership. This
    century will see China rise as a major economic power. We may do
    better trading as an independent "back door" into Europe without
    the constraints EU membership imposes.
    To use a quote from Maggie, "Coz they're frit". Politicians of
    all mainstream persuasions believe we've come too far down the
    European road to turn back. Even those who think otherwise would
    destroy their careers by voicing such "loony" ideas. Again
    Britain's electorate, given the chance, will have the final say.

    riccip
     
    riccip, Jun 19, 2004
    #36
  17. Eiron

    sweller Guest

    I don't think so.

    The rather sudden and unexpected Jewish statistics lead me to suspect his
    vote may have gone elsewhere...
     
    sweller, Jun 19, 2004
    #37
  18. Eiron

    riccip Guest

    The desire to be reelected.

    riccip
     
    riccip, Jun 19, 2004
    #38
  19. Eiron

    mups Guest

    riccip says...
    Maybe there are more people in Germany, just a thought.
    Have you read the Magna Carta, I think not.
     
    mups, Jun 19, 2004
    #39
  20. Eiron

    sweller Guest

    <fx: shakes head sadly>
     
    sweller, Jun 19, 2004
    #40
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