Petrol price to jump in the weeks ahead

Problem is, what you are suggesting is nothing like the Prius system,
it's more like what the Yanks are doing (eg the Volt et al). The "huge
flaw" is the double whammy in losses that hybrids (eg Prius) avoid.
Anyway. the subject is interesting, and even more so if you come off a
basic knowledge about what it is that you are discussing. May I humbly
suggest a search on "hybrid" as a first step (not trying to be a
smartarse, but the difference is chalk and cheese).

 

Initially, yes.

 

Canberra?

('s OK Betty, we'll give you warning)

 

To be honest the diesel-electric train model wasn't a good comparison (as
pointed out elsewhere), but I was thinking in terms of the way the Prius
operates, with the ic engine cutting in and out as required. Would be
interesting to see the logistics of your model with a big enough battery
array to allow reasonably sustained driving. I can't see a 400 cc
stationary motor setup working as a long distance proposition. There
would be a compromise somewhere as to how far you could get before the
car is effectively limited to the power output of the stationary motor.
Interesting proposition.

Bill

 

The Monash University Accident Research Centre (MUARC) study, funded by
RACQ, other motoring clubs and road authorities, investigated the types of
cars driven and crashed by young people and measured the contribution of
these vehicles to death and serious injury in a crash.

The study looked at more than 250,000 crashes involving young people in
Australia and New Zealand from 2001 to 2005. It found that because of the
cars they are driving, young people have an average 11 per cent greater risk
of death or serious injury if they have an accident.


http://newsletters.racq.com.au/em/message/email/view.php?u=18679&id=615257

 

JL wrote:

I'm with you John in that logic.

If the electric motors, one for each wheel, harvest excess energy,
acting as brakes, to feed power back to the batteries, but all the
actually driving is done by the electric motors, feed by batteries,
you'd have a situation where any "bonus" power can be easily feed into
the batteries..... maybe a roof, bonnet, boot lid of solar panels.

Then, the question of diesel or petrol practically goes away, whatever
is best at the time can be used, and if it happens to be an engine feed
with CNG, so be it, or even a 100% methanol burning beast.

If you take away the various rev ranges required for "normal" engines,
and have one single max.efficiency engine speed, you can do wonders of
efficiency.

In an article write by Phil Irvine, many years ago now, he talks about
developing a 500cc Vincent two stroke motor, for marine use (that's in
boats!).

He says that the two stroke motor was eventually developed to push 11
people, in a boat, 1,000 miles on 50 gallons of petrol. The best
equivalent from a four stroke, at that time, was 470 miles, same load,
same fuel. (Rich Mixture" Vol.1)

Maybe a light weight, two-stroke, could turn out to be the magical
answer.... at least for a while.

Modern computer control would be able to handle the power applied to
each wheel to it's most efficient, but... the bad news..... anything
built like that would be no fun at all to drive.



regards,
CrazyCam

 

You've totally missed my point - throttle response irrelevant - you'd
utilise a stationary motor diesel - one optimised for max efficiency
(max HP at min consumption) at a constant rpm. With appropriate
management of the battery levels you'd run it for extended periods
because you'd use a very small motor which wouldn't go anywhere near
being able to supply peak load, but would provide greater than
*average* load. That'd work because you'd run it constantly so in the
periods where a prius would be switching off the diesel would continue
to run and top up the level, and when you're driving at peak
acceleration you'd be gradually draining the batteries as the diesel
would only be supplying say 75% of the requirement.

For stop / start city driving it would be super efficient. It'd be
useless on a racetrack of course ;-)

JL

In such an application a turbo Diesel/LPG engine is more efficent.

http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Stationary Motors

 

JL wrote:

For driving the wheels, a motor per wheel is the simplest answer.

As for the diesel/petrol, who cares.....

Maybe even a wee flash tube boiler, and a steam driven gennny... once
you get the power supply to the wheels right, any "magic" box that makes
electricity, and isn't too heavy, can work.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

That doesn't answer the question of why there are so many Prius cars
running up and down the highway though


G-S

 

Maybe you had a lighter load?

We had 4 guys and 4 overnight bags running around in it.


G-S

 

That's not a problem, that's an advantage and it avoids most of the
flaws of the Prius.

The chevvy volt is a better concept than the Prius (although it remains
to be seen how it sells).


G-S

 

<sigh>
I love youse all, but that logic just isn't.
Maybe some time in the future someone will invent a way to make energy
out of thin air, but right here and now you are stuck with the old
conservation rules and that's all there is to it.
Yes, you can tune an engine to maximum efficiency in a narrow
power/torque neighbourhood - that's what hybrid is all about.
But, no matter what you use to charge the battery, there are going to
be losses. You have to find a way make the losses not matter too much.
That's what hybrid does.
If you are going to build a car with electric motors big enough to
provide an acceptable performance, the power of the generating engine
(ic engine, steam engine, nuclear bomb, whatever) needs to be about
double what the motors produce. Add battery charging duties to the mix
and you can double it again(1). Even allowing for the better
efficiency of the modified engine and the better performance of the
electric motors, there is a shitload of power that gets wasted and
can't be recovered under your "better than Prius" system. The nett
cost is in range or you just have to upsize the charging engine. The
Volt for example has only limp home capacity if the battery goes flat
on you.
It all boils down to the rarity of a free lunch. There are penalties
and advantages everywhere - you just have to find the right mix. Right
at the moment, hybrid is it. If you don't like the Prius (my next car
will probably be a sports coupe) then there are other hybrids around
that are as good or better value.
Or alternatively get a little turbo diesel from VW - they are pretty
good and are a tad cheaper than hybrid, but don't fool yourself into
believing that, when you compare apples with apples, they are more
fuel efficient.
Until a better all electric system comes along (it will eventually) it
will be hybrid all the way.
That's logical.

 

Well there ya go - beats my one small passenger and her handbag by a
country mile.

 

Geezus, bloody big car
My car, when 4 blokes are in it, have to sit in the seats
No room to run around in it
the dogs are the only ones who can .

 

And then http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/21/toyota-to-sell-diesel-hybrid-by-2010-thanks-to-isuzu/2

Theo

 

You're kidding, aren't you?

You've not noticed the slow demise of the turbo petrol engine (except
for a few committed dinosaurs). The disadvantages of having a petrol
turbo is so great that some manufacturers who are sticking with boost
have gone to supercharging. In the case of VW, aided by a turbo. Turbo
cars are just crap to drive people have stopped buying them. There's
still Saab, but not much longer.

Theo

 

And Peugeot. http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/241506/
GM and Mercedes http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582170,00.html
Nissan. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYH/is_2_7/ai_97757261/
Volvo http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/25/volvo-to-introduced-plug-in-diesel-hybrid-in-2012/
A VW concept http://gas2.org/2009/09/14/volkswagens-diesel-hybrid-1l-concept-gets-170-mpg-available-by-2013/

It seems everyone is about to make a diesel hybrid. Goodbye Prius.

Theo

 

Well it's like the Romans innit. What did they ever do for us?

 

The Golf Turbo-Diesel had the same load in it and performed better and
got better fuel economy.

Lack of torque is a problem with the Prius.


G-S

 

Well there is the Olympics


G-S