Petrol price to jump in the weeks ahead

Yeah I know. It was more political pressure that moved us where we
are. It's the old Beta/VHS argument. The better technology does not
always win. But we've got to start making it win. Won't affect me in
the long run as I'll be ashes by the time it really hurts.

The title of this thread doesn't concern me either. We go through
cycles of fuel prices. I recall everyone jumping in horror when I
bought a V8 in 1979 when fuel had jumped to 20c a litre. Shock horror!

My parents will drive 20km further than they need to to save a couple
of cents a litre on fuel these days. It's stupid. I couldn't care, if
I need fuel I just go and bloody buy it, wherever it is and whatever
price it is. There's bigger issues in life to worry about.

But let's get emissions down.

 

There's an apples and oranges thing here. For example, have you
factored in things like fuel density or the amount of petroleum
actually used to produce the fuel burned? Don't get me wrong, modern
small diesels are wonderfully efficient. It's just that the overall
numbers still favour hybrid petrol by an admittedly small margin. I
expect that margin to increase as the designs mature. I'm not sure if
there is much more that can be done with diesels, except maybe slot
them into hybrid systems too.

I was surprised at the performance in town and on the highway. It was
Yaris like, boringly competent. I don't know what I expected, maybe
something like my really old Morris Major - zero to 100 in 12 seconds
- that kind of thing.

 

What surprises me is the lack of a diesel /electric hybrid - it seems
to me a better combination - diesels are better suited to being
"stationary engines" and I would have thought you could get better
economy by having a small capacity diesel used solely as a charging
unit for the electric motors (ie not driving the wheels at all) -
diesels are at their most efficient when designed to run in a small
rpm band (as I understand it) so they'd be super efficient in that
config compared to both using a diesel to drive the wheels and an
electric /petrol hybrid.

JL

 

Yeah it's definitely the 2 smart solutions but there will be a lot of
emotional resistance to the former. It's an each way bet as to whether
the protesters win or not.

Hydrogen/mains power hybrid would probably be better though - run on
cheap nuclear power around town and only use more expensive to
generate hydrogen for longer trips.

JL

 

Pretty good. I was gonna say something like;- they can both carry four
people at the speed limit, the Prius weighs more so likely uses more
energy to produce, there's the unknown (to me) battery replacement/
disposal problem with the Prius, the Prius costs twice as much to buy,
uses more fuel, etc, etc. and it's ugly. but that is probably not an
environmental consideration.

Theo

 

Why? Does an annual inspection make the cars on the road safer? Do
uninspected cars have more accidents, and cause more deaths on the
roads?
NSW has annual inspections and their road toll increased last year. WA
has no inspections and theirs decreased. Why?

Theo

 

Yup. The Corolla of thirty years ago was much lighter and used less
fuel than today's model.

Theo

 

As in most trains these days, diesel-electric? I'd figure the biggest
problem would be the constant start/stop cycle, the way the Prius
operates - particularly around town. Might work well on the highway
though.

Bill

 

I believe it is closer to 1% and a lot of those are design faults. Ask
the people whose Prius brakes stopped working recently.

I think it's young people driving anything that kills people.
Fortunately, mostly themselves.

Adding to a previous conversation re single vehicle accident deaths, a
recent report by the WA Commish of Police stated that more than 60% of
the road toll in WA is due single vehicle accidents, and most of those
are on country roads.

Theo

 

Power: weight? Hybrids are already disadvantaged here.
Stop Start running? Turbo diesels don't like that one little bit.
Throttle response? Essential if computer simulated "normal" driving is
to succeed.
Probably a few others involving size, cost, real economy...
However, I doubt if there are any difficulties that can't be overcome
if the will exists to do so.

 

People around where I live can go the nearest servo and fill their
tanks at 139.9 or drive ten kms and pay 115.9. You do the maths on how
many litres you have to buy to be better off..

Agreed. Lets then junk the overpriced, overweight Prius and drive
small turbo diesels for now. Sure we have a problem and we do need a
solution, but the Prius isn't it.

Theo

 

Your Morris Major did 0-100 in 12 seconds? Did you slot in a V8?
A little research shows that the 1962 Elite with the bigger 1622
engine managed 0-100 in 22.6. That's 4.5 seconds faster than 26.1 of
the 1959 version. Wow!

Theo

 

theo wrote:
and it's ugly. but that is probably not an

Of course it is
Aesthetics these days seems to be a very important consideration, Visual
pollution and all that

Kev

 

So a Hybrid Hilux(with 4.0L V6 on LPG) would be a top seller?
since it outsells a lot of normal cars now

Kev

 

Trains and most large earth-moving equipment is diesel electric
because of the inability to deal with starting loads with a clutch
mechanism. They have huge mass and need the clutchless max torque at
zero revs of the series wound electric motor. Smaller earthmoving
equipment tend to use hydraulic motors.

Theo

 

Huh? Please expline.

Why would a turbo diesel have a problem with throttle response?

Theo

 

My age addled brain seems to recall 0-60mph in 12 secs but I'll bow to
your research. Anyway, that's what I expected of the Prius.

 

It's become less of a problem with modern engines, but I could see it
rearing it's head again in a Hybrid. As I said though, I'm sure it
could be overcome with R&D if the will is there.

My turn to say Huh!?
Um, let me see - larger mass components, lower flame speed, lower
thermal efficiency...
Again, computer programs could be developed to cancel these effects,
but that would take the will to do it.
I think you are thinking in terms of absolutes and ignoring the
specifics involved in this application (diesel in hybrid cars). None
of the problems are insurmountable but solutions need to be developed.
Manufacturers do not have the need to do this... yet.

 

A new solution has to be developed, accepted by the market, and mass
produced. In the mean time the market requires individual
transport.The eventual solution cannot be petroleum based. Hybrid is
an interim step, as are small efficient turbo diesels. The final
solution will not be either of these, on that you can bet, if you are
still around to do it

 

Well I was listening to Radio National the other day and they were
talking to some Uni dude who had done the research and found that,
yes, inexperienced drivers are more likely to die, but it the stats
seemed to show it was because they were buying older cars that were
less well maintained combined with the testosterone factor.

If you go and look at some of the cars on Tassie roads, I'd hate to
have to take accident avoidance in a lot of them. As for protection,
some of the are so full of rust the whole thing would fall apart
around you. Hit a nasty bump in a corner with a semi coming the other
way and your struts are fucked? Kiss you arse goodbye.

Sorry. I agree with inspections. Lets keep the older cars on the road
as long as we can. But let's make sure they are roadworthy.