[QUOTE] I'd put this one somewhere between "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "beyond a shadow of a doubt". Iraq looked unecessary before we went in and what I've seen since then reinforces that view. If you want to argue it's still uncertain, that's fine by me. I'll leave you to debate this one with yourself. I expect that some time before 2008, withdrawal will become a political necessity. At the time we'd lost the 1000th troop, my bet was total losses in the range of 1500-2000. I think this was mildly optimistic. I'd expect we'll cobble up some inspirational phrase like "peace with honor" (remember that one ?) and wish the Iraqi government best of luck. If it turns out better than that, I'll be delighted. I see the intellignce services as dutifully playing scapegoat and taking a bullet for the prez. It has mostly to do with my observations of how we rushed into the war. I guess I'm fairly indifferent. The war will turn out however it turns out. You'll eventually I hope get past this uncertainty of yours and reach your own conclusions. [/QUOTE] I've reached conclusions. I merely do not insist that they are the only possible conclusions, nor do I try to imply that anyone who does not share those conclusions are foolish.. bob