Perspective

I'm working off what the memo actually SAID, the fact that we don't know to
whom the writer actually spoke or what was said to give him the impressions
he got.

The memo ALLEGES. It "proves" nothing.

cheers

bob

 

‘‘it's because we all kill filed him years ago for doing that,
routinely changing his e-mail name to get around existing filters, and a
host of things you were starting to do before you were advised how they
would be seen based on who typically does those kinds of things. HHH has
been doing it for years and appears oblivious to to impact it has on how
people tune him out.

(Mark Johnson)

‘‘Thanks for your enlighment’’
Buuuutttt, Not every one has ole Hank in their KillBoxes, Cuz, this
thread is ate up with folks arguing with ole Hank, it appears to me!!
’’ Say, how ya doing Mark? Me too. Can't wait to be riding in
cooler weather, and getting back in the Leather. I aint much on riding
in 100+.
I ain't playing a lotta Golf, cuz of the heat.
Maybe once a week? You play Golf, Mark? cheers, (bjay)

 

Bob Thomas whined and cried:

That The DSM doesn't prove bu$h lied about his reasons
for his terror attack on Iraq, and that Iraq didn't comply
with U.N. demands prior to bu$h's terror attack.

Not all of it was censored, and I have a very good idea
what was in it - proof that U.S. corporations sold Hussein
WMD technology in violation of U.N. resolutions.
I also know that you're wrong when you claim that Iraq
didn't account for the WMDs it acquired with the aid and
blessing of the Reagan/bu$h regime.

Why not do some reading, rather than just spew speculative
nonsense in defense of war criminals and terrorists?
The bu$h regime wouldn't let the U.N. security council anywhere
near the report until it deleted more than half of it to protect
its friends who sold WMD technology to Saddam.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2002/1222theft.htm

"The United States edited out more than 8000 crucial pages of Iraq's
11,800-page dossier on weapons, before passing on a sanitised version
to the 10 non-permanent members of the United Nations security council.
The full extent of Washington's complete control over who sees what
in the crucial Iraqi dossier calls into question the allegations made
by US Secretary of State Colin Powell that 'omissions' in the document
constituted a 'material breach' of the latest UN resolution on Iraq.
Last week, Secretary General of the UN Kofi Annan accepted that it
was 'unfortunate' that his organisation had allowed the US to take the
only complete dossier and edit it. He admitted 'the approach and style
were wrong' and Norway, a member of the Security Council, says it is
being treated like a 'second-class country'."


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1173.htm

Saddam was generously supplied with WMD by the United States and
Britain in the 1980s when he was fighting Iran, so apparently his
possession of them is not inherently threatening, but only when not
serving approved U.S.-British ends. It is well-known--though not
reported and reflected on in the U.S. media--that the United States
seized the 12,000 page Iraq report on its WMD in order to remove some
8,000 pages that detailed U.S. and other Western company and official
provision of WMD to Iraq in earlier years. Leaving that material in
would have shown U.S. approval of the weapons whose possession is now
deemed a huge menace, demonstrating that the pretense of menace is
blatant hypocrisy."



-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

If you "think" that the head of Britain's MI6 is a liar,
or that the DSM is part of a vast left wing conspiracy,
you'll need to prove your allegations. Your wild conspiracy
theories and baseless accusations mean nothing. No one
is disputing the accuracy of the DSM but you.
The DSM confirms what was stated by Paul O'Neill and
Richard Clarke, which is that bu$h sent troops to fight,
kill and die in Iraq over blatant lies.
bu$h's attack on Iraq was an immoral war crime of choice, not
a legal and necessary war of defense. Your support for this
level of treason and abuse of our Military is un-American and
shameful.
NEXT!


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

According to Hans Blix, Iraq was in compliance with
U.N. demands at the time bu$h launched his illegal,
immoral, and globally condemned terror attack on the
People of Iraq. What violated terms are you referring
to and what did Iraq need to do in order to avoid bu$h's
attack? So far, not one war supporter has been able to
answer this question.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0127-04.htm

"Iraq Largely Cooperating with Inspectors, UN Security Council Hears
Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said Iraq has largely cooperated
with arms experts, in a report to the UN Security Council that could
determine whether the world body backs military action against Baghdad."


-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

What violated terms are you referring to and what did
Iraq need to do in order to avoid bu$h's attack? So far,
not one war supporter has been able to answer this question.
It seems like they support that mass murder and terrorism
of innocent People, but don't even know why. Insane.....

-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

Can you be more specific? Show us the treaty and the wording
in it that was being violated by Iraq at the time of bu$h's
terror attack.

Exactly which resolution was Iraq violating, and what
did Iraq need to do in order to be in compliance?

According to Hans Blix, Iraq was cooperating well
with his inspection team. What is your proof for
claiming that Iraq was deceiving Hans Blix and his
inspectors? You must have some very solid evidence
to justify spending hundreds of BILLIONS of U.S.
taxpayer dollars, killing tens of thousands of
innocent civilians, and killing or severely wounding
well over ten thousand U.S. soldiers.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0127-04.htm

"Iraq Largely Cooperating with Inspectors, UN Security Council Hears
Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said Iraq has largely cooperated
with arms experts, in a report to the UN Security Council that could
determine whether the world body backs military action against Baghdad."



-


http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

Over $150 million desperately needed taxpayer dollars
per day. Remember, it's YOUR money....

-

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase
the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically
Londoners have now paid the price of the Government
ignoring such warnings." Respect MP George Galloway

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own war crimes in Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler


"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)


http://globalresearch.ca/
http://www.wsws.org/


George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other
governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues
to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever
devised." March 17, 2003.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

 

The inspectors were in place on the ground. When invasion was
imminent they were withdrawn for their own safety.

Looking at 1441:

There didn't seem to be any WMDs.

There were some missles which may have exceeded the range limits
set, but this was pretty iffy and the missles were being surrendered
for destruction.

There was one Al Quaida linked camp operating in a part of Kurdistan
not under government control.

This doesn't look much like an imminent threat.

 

That isn't a lie, it is an irrefutable FACT. That you don't understand it
merely goes to show that you aren't smart enough to understand the
difference between an unsupported allegation and a fact.

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny too?

I would suggest that YOU do some reading of sources other than those
conspiracy theory sources that support your paranoia.

bob

Half truths, lies and irrelevancies.

Ken Lay did what he did under Clinton's watch, you idiot. He got caught and
is being prosecuted under Bush's watch. Naturally, you idiots blame Bush.
Figures........

bob

 

First, your own quote says "Largely Cooperating".

Second, we had about 100K troops poised on Saddam's borders at the time.
So.........he made a show of cooperation. There were still lots of places
the inspectors couldn't go.

bob

 

It's been answered. You are either too stupid to understand, or a
liar....or both.

The CEASE FIRE agreement was violated in several particulars, among them
that he'd ACCOUNT for his WMDs, repatriate Kuwaiti prisoners and return the
stuff he stole from Kuwait.

17 successive UN Security Council Resolutions demanded that he ACCOUNT FOR
his WMDs. Those resolutions did not say anything about the inspectors
having to FIND them.

Seems like you don't have sense enuf to pour piss out of a boot.

bob

 

I don't think either, nor have I even implied it. Might I suggest FUN WITH
PHONICS to help you with that reading problem??? I merely maintain that it
is the impression of the writer.

Your wild conspiracy

Oh, that's rich. One of the number one conspiracy theorists on the
newsgroups and the poster of the wildest and most baseless accusations says
this??? ROTFLMAO.

No one

That's a baseless lie and you damned well know it. Nor do I dispute that
the writer accurately reported his impressions. I continue to remind you
that we don't know to whom he spoke nor do we know what was said. This is
only my opinion, but I rather doubt that the author of the memo read Bush's
mind.

There are at least three people here on the newsgroup that think you are a
complete idiot. Using your logic, it is PROVEN that you ARE a complete
idiot.

bob

 

I suppose that's possible. It's even likely........so long as he can spew
his crap, facts are irrelevant.

bob

 

And apparantly doing a good job, considering that we came up empty
in our search for weapons.

And never given time by us to complete their work and determine that
Iraq was in fact weapons free.

He was in the process of accounting when we sent troops in. If
we'd wanted an accounting, we could have waited and gotten one. We
didn't.

It was presented to Congress and the U.N. as a threat, which it
wasn't.

The U.N. reacted by sending inspectors in. Rather than wait
for results, we invaded.

 

Unless they're still hidden or got moved to Syria. We know he had 'em. We
know he used 'em. We don't know what happened to them.

Arrant nonsense. He was in the process of "cooperating" to the least amount
possible.

NOW we think we know this.

How long should we have waited, another 12 years??

bob

 

ROTFL.... What'd I say ?

 

Moved to Syria my ass. Back that up with even as flimsy a batch
of evidence as was presented for the supposed WMDs before we
went in.

They said they were weapons free. We found no weapons. What more
did you have in mind ?

He was in the process of "cooperating" to save his ass. He was
cooperating to the satisfaction of the inspectors.

It was obvious prior to invasion that an invasion was unnecessary.

It was obvious very shortly after they went in that they weren't
going to find a damn thing. What they did manage to do was to screw
up and loose a bunch of stuff that had already been sealed and
accounted for in earlier U.N. inspections. Other than that, they
accomplished not one damn thing.

I suspect that it was pretty obvious to the hawks prior to invasion,
that they were going to come up empty, which was why they were
unwilling
to let the inspections run to completion.

early or mid-summer. If the results had been unsatisfactory, fall
would have been the most probable time for an invasion, given weather
and logistics.

The timeframe to complete the inspections was well known.

 

So you don't come across as an ignorant and gullible
fool who mindlessly parrots the bu$h regime's lies,
would be the main reason. It would require a rather
unstable kook to make an assertion without being able
to support it when it's questioned, doncha "think"?
<chuckle>


-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/pol/80315675.html

In September and October 2003, McClellan said he had spoken
directly with Rove about the matter and that "he was not
involved" in leaking Plame's identity to the news media.
McClellan said at the time: "The president knows that Karl
Rove wasn't involved," "It was a ridiculous suggestion"
and "It's not true."
Yet another in the endless stirng of bu$h's lies.

"We argued, as did the security services in this country,
that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the
threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners
have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such
warnings." Respect MP George Galloway 7-7-05

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf Hitler

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...