parents

Some, certainly; lots, as in a large percentage of riders, certainly not.

I think I already knew that. It's just that some people think that all
people without helmets and/or seatbelts cannot possibly get home alive.

Theo

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:37:11 +0900

Dunno... Of all crashes, no. Of all crashes where a helmet might
make a difference, that's harder to say, but Harry Hurt seems to think
yes.

Absolutely. Just as some think that without a fullface you will be
horribly disfigured, or without leathers you will lose all your skin.

Some people have really interesting risk compensation issues I think.
Such as after someone did a bunch of wheelying stunts, stuffed one up,
and got his face badly broken when a whole bike landed on it, his
mates all howled that the Oz standard for helmets was defective
because it didn't test chinbars and obviously the chinbar was
inadequate...

Zebee

 

Yup. Safety equipment allows people to be more stupid, but terminal
stupidity is, well.. terminal.

I think that safety equipment that makes you uncomfortable, particularly for
long periods, is unsafe.

Theo

 

Helmets can and will kill you
I lost a mate through a broken neck in a drop , looked alseep but wasn't

I remember one arvo we finsihed work and the wog bloke ( a greek) took

off out the gate straight into the side of an old Austin denting it (1972)

hugly, all he had was a head ache and the car had massive damage where

he head butted it .

Helmets might save as well I guess but I only ever

fell once wearing one and it was a nice open face ( on a sprotster)

s o I wasn't going that fast .

 

OK Consider this scenario :
I am in a room with a gun.
You're outside, told this, handed a bullet proof vest and told to go in.

Not putting it on first would be rather silly. May not protect where you
got shot *if* I fired, eg in the leg, but a safety garment was available
and not used, regardless of whether it was legally required to do so or
not - it was available, but not used.

 

I can vouch for my nolan n102 (flip front) taking quite a beating to the
front recently when I did a faceplant at about 80km/h.. definitely saved
me a busted nose and 15K in false teeth.. didn't protect the bike itself
any, sadly.

Only fallen like that once, and that's plenty.

 

Even with a vest you are vulinerable , and if shot may still die or
suffer severe bruising.. and trust me vests don't protect you from the
pain of impact.. physics youknow..
Not a great simile but sorta ok .

 

We agree then , nothing like ripping down a fairly agricultural strip of
back road on a sprung hub flat out at 105 mpg with the wind in ones Da

 

My father was a journo for Channel 10 (and Channel 0 before it became 10) in
Melbourne for quite a few years during my youth, and these days he lectures
here and there at schools and universities about news reporting. One of the
main thing he impresses on his students......News is more about
entertainment than anything else.

Cheers,
Dale.

 

That might be useful analogy if you're the type of rider who gets on
their bike, puts on a blindfold and then fires themselves off into
oblivion without due care.
How about something more realistic. There are 100 almost identical
rooms. You _may_ be in one of the rooms with a gun. I am outside the
rooms, and I don't know which room you're in, and inside each room there
is furniture and other fittings which would provide protection from a
bullet. There is a small window in each door that I can look through
before I choose to enter. You hand me a bullet proof vest. I make an
appropriate risk assessment.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

Amen

I used to direct news for HSV7 in Melbourne and worked as an editor
for 60 minutes in Sydney and SBS in Sydney among a lot of other media
shit I've done since leaving school. (Do I dare mention that I was
directing Hinch's current affair show for ATN7 when it first went
national?).

I really got well and truly over the media in the 80s. The hypocrisy
drove me mad. I moved sideways into post production only to find
advertising agency wankers driving me mad. Now I'm in animation and
making kiddie's cartoons. Much more sane.

I find the pedestal the media is put on very frustrating. Look behind
the scenes and it is pretty much bullshit.

 

I agree. I don't think anyone can argue that it will throw the odds
your way. There will be no guarantee though. My mum was in a car
accident in the 60s where she probably would have died if she HAD been
wearing a seatbelt. But she certainly wears one all the time now.

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:36:33 +1100

It will throw the odds your way in a low speed crash where the head
hits something.

In a high speed crash it is unlikely to make a difference unless you
scrub off plenty of speed somehow before your head hits the solid
object.

There's also the problem that it's only going to be of use if you
don't get some other fatal injury. In urban crashes I believe the
usual injury is to the legs which isn't usually fatal but isn't about
helmets either. Rural crashes I don't know, I guess it depends on
whether it's a lowside or a high side or a head on or someone going
farming.

I dunno if any stats are available about the number of crashes
involving heads. The only one I know of is a comparison study done in
Vic some time ago which couldn't draw any conclusion about full vs
open face because the number of crashes involving damage to helmets
was so low.

The counter-argument is that wearing a lid is not that much of an
imposition so why not? I've ridden lidless and lidded, and for
some riding lidless is more pleasant, but not enough to really worry
about.

On the other hand, there have been times when I've pulled the pushbike
helmet off because it *is* too unpleasant wearing it.

<note: I have had a crash where I hit my head while wearing a helmet,
and sustained a head injury. I have no way to know if the injury
would have been worse or not without it as I do not plan to re-do the
incident to gain that data. And unless I do, I *can't* know. I can
only guess.>

Zebee

 

Long before I got to the end of this my eyes glazed over.

It's a conspiracy, right?

I think it is just laziness on the part of the reporter, teamed with an
overwhelming desire to get the story out there first. It's never been much
different.

Theo

 

Aye, I've ridden sprung hubs but it was my brother who had a Triumph, I had
a BSA A7, and it never went over 100 mph, or 80 mpg. Ahh, when you could go
the ton without breaking some stupid law.

Theo

 

Going down the gun club wearing shorts and a tank-top (whatever happened to
them) with two or three pistol cases strapped to the rack, and a pocket full
of ammo.

Cheers.

Theo

 

No, going in would be silly. I would rather a) walk away or b) roll a
grenade in the door or c) use the American method, go 1000 miles away and
fire a million dollar cruise missile at you.

You're working on the premise that 'accidents' aren't avoidable. I start
with the presumption that they are, and I actively work towards making sure
that they are avoided. On the rare ocassion that I have an unexpected close
call, I ask why and how I got myself into that situation.

Zebee can explain this much better than I, but you're probably too young and
stupid to get the message.

(it's still harsh week, isn't it?)

Theo

 

So what stupid thing did you do to cause you to fall? Maybe it was some-one
else's fault?

Theo

 

I am in a street with a car.
You're in the next street, told this, given the choice of a car or a
motorcycle and told to ride down the street with the car.

Not taking the car would be rather silly. May not protect you against a
bad prang *If* the other car hit you, eg head injuries, but a safer
option was available and not used, regardless of whether it was legally
required to do so or not - it was available, but not used.


I am in a street with a car.
You're in the next street, told this, given the choice of a car or
taking the bus and told to ride down the street with the car.

Not taking the bus would be rather silly. May not protect you against a
bad thing happening, eg collision and fire, but a safer option was
available and not used, regardless of whether it was legally required to
do so or not - it was available, but not used.


I am in a street with a car.
You're in the next street, told this, given the choice of staying home
and going to bed or being told to catch a bus and ride down the street
with the car.

Not staying home and going to bed would be rather silly. May not protect
you against a meteor shower *If* the gods have determined that you suck
and are going to hell, eg eternal hellfire and damnation, but a safer
option was available and not used, regardless of whether it was legally
required to do so or not - it was available, but not used.


Hey, this is fun...

 

While you guys are worring about whether or not you're going to hell by
being run over by a bus, or rained on by a meteor shower...

I'm already on the bike, enjoying myself and getting on with life.

If you want me, I'll be at my destination.

And considering that I want to be left alone, this is a perfect outcome for
me. You'll never want me because I can't hear my f*ucking phone ringing
through the plugs and helmet, and you're not likely to come out of your house
for fear of being run over by a bus or rained on by a meteor shower.