Panic Smells...

No. And you and I have already had this disagreement years ago, so let's
leave it at that. We disagree. Nuff said.

 

Panic is not necessarily a bad thing. I have felt it several times, and it's
helped me react with the required urgency. And it should be noted that at
the end of the day, even the most thoroughly trained individual will
probably commit a mistake if you throw a significant number of panic
situations at him. Even Navy Seals that have devoted their life to training
will do something wrong when he sh*t hits the fan - we always do as humans
eventually, and the problem is merely that panic situations are panic
situations because they give you less margin of error - but thoroughly
eliminating error is impossible. Going into such situations untrained,
however, is near suicidal.

I don't even think it is desirable to eliminate panic - if it didn't have a
purpose and make sense, evolution would not have programmed it into our most
instinctive control center. The panic-danger alert is a high priority
interrupt that ideally triggers a wired-in response for immediate execution.
If something has big teeth and claws, weighs over 500 pounds and comes
running at you, you don't want to stand around too long rationally
considering your options. But as Larry has said, a lot of behavior on the
motorcycle is not wired in, and thus we have to train our natural reactions.
Which typically means avoiding bad habits, if you use the rear brake al the
time you'll have a hell of a time switching to front use in a panic
situation, etc etc.

Panic is my friend, though. I think panic is paralyzing when familiarity
with the situation isn't there, otherwise it typically triggers the reaction
that comes most naturally, which typically is a reaction we have
repetitively trained to engrain it. Which is why I am naturally panicky and
very paranoid when I get on the bike after a longer stint of going without -
I know the dangerous part of rustiness is that in a panic situation it might
take my danger center an additional second to respond.

....pablo

 

Nah. Not worth the time or effort. However, the good news is that since
the old days when Phil was spouting this nonsense, he has at least come back
to riding. But then, I've stopped. So it nets out to zero anyway.

 

Yes when the inexperienced rider could have avoided falling... we can
not say a broken brake perch caused an accident... it merely caused a
emergency... it's the riders inability to make a decision as to proper
brake application that caused the fall... they will not progress into a
experience rider until they admit the ugly truth... I'm a squirming
little brake modulator that doesn't know how I tossed my bike away...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Sorry... it's only a compiling of a few personal scenarios rolled into
one... and please... just for the record I disassociated myself from the
word "fast" after I buried my riding buddy Kelly back in 1985...

Using your survivors mind set doesn't mean the ride has to be within the
boundaries of dullness... a ride can incorporate other lessons too... at
some point you will roll the throttle WFO and set up for the next
corner... determined to do it better (smoother and tighter) than the
corner you just exited... you don't want to emerge from a corner
dissatisfied with your performance... the thrill is getting it right...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

There not ellipses... it's my bite size personal writing style that
Microsoft Word Perfect doesn't understand...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

What can I say: I'm easily amused. Besides, it'll give me a chance
to talk about DSA carbines. I'd really like one of those.

-- Michael

 

<snipped for bandwidth savings>


I don't think theres much left to say about panic thankyou for that
interesting overview. I'm sure it will help a rider ..hopefully this
one who will be returning to riding after a lay off..

huey

 

No... 2.0 decades since my last accident... I went from knees in the
breeze to butt in the dust in 2.3 seconds...

That's what friends are for... they see things in each other that they
don't see in themselves...

Though some accidents cannot be avoided, that decision must NEVER be
made by the rider... A rider’s only concern should be to do everything
possible to keep from crashing... so shit just don't happen... a rider
makes it happen...


Wasn't it you who was foolishly arguing that a human

Yes... I was helping you distill .08 seconds of your ride...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

WTF?

So if I'd decided back in August to warm up my tires with some easy laps
instead of hard charging on the first session after lunch, you're saying I
still would have crashed in turn 3 at Portland? What if I'd stayed home?
Would I have crashed then, or would I have avoided the accident?

I didn't have you pegged as such an extreme fatalist.

This part sounds more reasonable.

--
Jamin Kortegard
2002 YZF-R1 / 2003 WRX

"Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match
for a good literbike at your side, kid."
- Michael

 

According to the MSF guide, (someone here claimed to be an instructor) an
accident is a series of a chain of events, that rider responsibility could
have intervened to prevent any one of them.


Although sometimes shit happens, let us not get lulled into believing that
we shouldn't look back objectively at OUR mistakes and learn from them.
That is what makes a champion.

 

Thank you... it's true... I will not lie because I'm searching for
answers why some riders go 20 years without a accident and why some
can't go 2 months... there's a lot of crashing going on in the NGs to
explain... we have a depressing safety record...

OK... back in 79 while stationed Yokota AFB Japan I didn't know a thing
about lane splitting... but lane splitting was required by Japanese law
since a motorcycle was not allowed to claim a whole lane... you either
grew comfortable riding with your elbows dodging mirrors or you parked
it... I noticed it was the young Japanese Sport Riders who were the
experts at slicing and dicing traffic so I copied their Banzai style...
hey I enjoy a good risk remember???

On the outskirts of Tokyo while splitting a Isuzu and Hino cattle truck
the space around my bike began to taper as the drivers unintentionally
navigated the two lanes... it got down to nothing quick... next I felt
the bars being captured by first one truck and then another... mercy I'm
stuck so I figured it was time to jettison the whole mess as I grabbed
the wood rails of the Hino cattle truck began to climb... my weight
signal Papa-san at the wheel that something wasn't right... he looked in
the rear view mirror and saw a Kawasaki appendage on his Hino truck...
he veered left and my bike came away unstuck and hit the pavement
shimmying... all I could think about was getting back on the bike before
it crashed-without me... so I dove for the bars and thumped my butt back
into the saddle and wobbled away... I stopped at the nearest noodle
stand to finish shaking with fear and checking for seat stains...

Yes... I fucked up going for a space like a seasoned Squid Boy...
however it only caused a emergency... it was up to me... the rider... to
do whatever to avoid the accident...


Cause if that's the case then I

Negative Mr.MSF instructor... it was only you and your bike on a clear
day on a dry road at a bicycle pace... I say there's only one person
responsible who could have avoided this accident...

Neither do you... but one thing is clear... the ride did not end safe as
the Mr.F predicted... how to think through the same situation and find a
solution is my aim...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Nice one Larry!! !! and it does indeed lend much support to yer
argument for never giving up. My point however is that when its over its
over and at that point one still has options to mitigate the damage..

Phil Scott

 

Is that the military o6 with the circular magazine tight under the breach?
Recoilless. I had one of those in 1982, sold it for 600 dollars.

Phil Scott

 

correct... virtually all accidents are avoidable. some activity
involves taking calculated risks...on the street that should still not be
causing accidents.

on a race track a person is riding on the edge, so that any slick spot on
the track or whatever and you can have an accident. Even most of those are
avoidable at absolute levels.

When I just starting riding again after a 20 year lay off, 18 months ago, I
was a road hazard waiting to happen...everything was out... nothing was
right... and I was not watching what was around me very well either... its
taken all this time to get it back to the good old days to some extent. I
still have a long ways to go.

Getting in shape *really helped though and mentally as well. I was talking
to a motocross rider today and we shook hands.. his hand was meaty and
strong like steel... you just have to know that he will not be adversely
influenced by tired muscles and a weak grip on the track... another clue...
I have a long ways to go in that area too. Strength helps more than I had
previously realized.





Phil Scott

 

If the rider intervened there would be no accident.

But he didn't so he did. Have an accident that is. Hence accidents are
unavoidable.

let us not get lulled into believing that all accidents are within our
power to prevent.

Perfect example... cush drive explodes and locks up the rear. I'd like
to see what all you fucking rider gods would do when the rear locks up
in a turn at 70 and highsides you into a low orbit.

 

Prolly cause he's a nice guy who'd wilt under the pressure of
egomaniacal editors and their antics!

 

There's a difference between "not avoided" and "unavoidable". Your circular
logic has grown tiresome, Mr. McTroll.

Of course not. I remember reading about a particular instance where a rotten
cedar tree happened to fall out of a forest and clobber a family in a car,
on a straight and clear roadway. 99.99% of the trees along that road were
healthy. There's no way they have seen it coming or reacted to avoid it if
they had. Simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.

--
Jamin Kortegard
2002 YZF-R1 / 2003 WRX

"Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match
for a good literbike at your side, kid."
- Michael

 

It might be worth it as I love to write... once I was published in Gray
Bike International... you're looking at the last issue... it went tits
up... but at least Mick Dohann liked it enough to send a signed copy...
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user=netters2&category=ShopPics&file=DohannSigTwoWheelOrdeal.JPG

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Uhhhhh, is it POSSIBLE that maintenance could have predicted this? (thereby
allow a sentient human being to prevent it)