Paging the charging system gurus.

When I got back from my ride on the Morini on Friday I realised that the
indicators weren't blinking and that the idiot light to show that the
lights were on was fluctuating markedly with engine revs. Turned the
headlight off and blinking was reinstated. A bit puzzled because it has
been treated to a new battery. Only a 12v 5.5 Ah job as that's all you
can squeeze in to a 250 and a quick check with a multimeter had
indicated a healthy 14-15 volts across it when running.

Checked this morning and still the same, then had a sudden realisation
that I had fitted the Cibie headlight from the broken on Ebay 77 Strada.
With that on, the voltage drops to just 12.2 even at 4000 rpm. So I had
a look at the bulb in the headlight. An H4 type 60/55w job. A quick test
revealed that with lights on (the pilot light stays on with the
headlight so IIRC another 10w or so max) and indicators working a peak
current of well over 8 amps is being drawn. Does that sound about right?

The 350 motor in it has the 130w output alternator (well it was when
new) and the standard bulb is a poxy little 35/25w thing. By my
calculations it ought to be able to power the lights and charge the
battery, but on the face of it doesn't. I suppose I ought to try a
current reading, but I don't want to mess about with a stator rewind if
it isn't going to be up to it even when tip top so I thought of trying
one of these:

http://www.redlineuk.co.uk/headlight-bulbs/all-xenon-bulbs/h4-45-40w-hs1-
super-white-motorbike-xenon-headlight-bulbs-12v-pair.htm

TBH, I doubt I'll be riding it much at night, but I do tend to keep the
dipped beam on during the day, and ending up with non-functioning
indicators after a reasonably long ride isn't an appealing outcome.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Using my in depth electrical knowledge, I know that magic amp smoke =
magic watt smoke / magic volt smoke, so assuming the indicator bulbs
are 21 watts of smoke, 8.75 amp smokes would be about right.

HID would seem to be the obvious answer, but a 45/40 xenon would
probably do the job.

 

With your headlight on dip you're probably using about 55w + 5W pilot +
5W tail. Then you need to add on something for the ignition - I've no
idea what coil ignition consumes but it's either > 65W or your
alternator isn't producing 130W. Situation gets worse when you're
braking/indicating of course.

An ammeter will prove whether current is flowing into, or as I suspect
out of, the battery.

 

url:http://www.redlineuk.co.uk/headligh...-motorbike-xenon-headlight-bulbs-12v-pair.htm

Probably do the job. The Xenon bulbs in normal 60/55W actually do
produce extra light, but don't last as long as normal halogens. First
time I've seen a 45/40W one, though. I'm wary of the blue coated ones,
as they're usually indicative of bullshit.
Whatever; a drop of a few watts draw while maintaining the same light
output will do your alternator a bit of a favour.

 

The weird Morini ignition system produces all the power it needs from a
dedicated stator coil which i know has been rewound on this one.

I suspect Lambertini or one of his minions thought 35w of yellow glow
ought to be enough for anybody on a feeble 350.

My multimeter has a 10amp DC plug and setting so I suppose that ought to
cope in series though the leads don't look very thick. Nothing ventured.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Ah, forgot that they were as high wattage as that. All a bit marginal if
the battery wasn't fully charged at the start (which it wasn't as I had
fitted a couple of months ago).

If all else fails I see you can get 35/35w H4 bulbs, that'll do for my
purposes.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

RatTig's got a 35/35 enduro headlight, & you really, really don't want
to be riding unlit roads at night with one of those. Plenty good enough
for daylight use though.

 

Where from?

 

Yes, it will.

However, it is far quicker to measure the battery voltage. It is not necessary
to use an ammeter to find out if there is current going into or out of the battery.

If the voltage is higher than what the battery needs to charge, it is charging, if
lower, it is discharging. The voltmeter won't tell you the magnitude of the
current in/out of the battery - but you only need to know which side of the divide
you are on. If the voltage is comfortably above the charging threshold, you're
good.

 

Stick: 35w h4 bulb -hid in ebay.

 

Recently someone dumped a pair of car headlamp clusters in the flats bin
room so I liberated the bulbs and connectors, one of the sidelight bulbs was
blue coated - I didn't know such things existed.

 

http://www.startright.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2020

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

and no braking.

 

Not the done thing when riding a Morini anyway. Though I did sort the
uneven pressure it got an advisory on the MoT for. Ditched the strange
drilled disc from the Ebay breaker and put the one from the hill climber
back on with brand new pads. This meant shimming the caliper as the disc
offset seemed a gnat's cock different, but I knew from previous
experience that old Morini rocker shaft shims are a good fit on the
mounting bolts and just the right thickness. A few hard stops and it now
has a pretty good brake (for a smallish single disc) and no pulsing.
Don't like the 'feel' so much with the spiffy new braided line though.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

This just sounds like inspired tinkering. Well done.

 

Sounds about right your headlamp will pull around 5 amps , if main
beam and dip are on at the same time you could easily pull 9 amps
from that alone

If your running main and dip ,indicators and ignition system your
pulling more out of the battery than your putting in

Even just on dip your going to be close to the limit

 

Start at the bottom and work up. Replace the rear lights, indicators and
pilot lights with LED bulbs. Obviously changing the indicators might need a
change of relay to set the flash rate. I think I'd do this for all SOB.
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/led-motorcycle-and-scooter-bulbs/
then
www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/RMU459-RING-12v-35-35w-PXPX43T-Halogen-Headlamp-Bulb.html
Which I'm sure will be fine for your porpoises.

Can the regulator be tuned or modified or replaced to change the charging
curve?

HID is possible of course, it just seems like a lot more faff.

 

Hmm, if I can at least replace the pilot light, tail and instrument
lights that might find me 10w and make the 45/40 jobs usable. In fact,
apart from MoT time, there's no need for pilot and instrument lights at
all for day time running.

That would take it back to a standard load, so TBH is by far the
quickest fix.

It's a very primitive device and relies on thyristors to switch off the
output from the single phase with centre tap (split or biphase)
alternator.

http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/spann4.gif

The Dutch Morini club also quote the early alternator as only 100w
output, the figure I have from a manual of 130wmust be for the later
unit. So hardly surprising it's struggling.

The system will not charge at all if the battery is very low, so a
double whammy if balance conditions can't be maintained. Apparently the
later models used full bridge regulators and some people have used Honda
Superdream units but no idea if the improve low rpm charging. You
certainly can't get the old CEV units any longer.

Indeed.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

In communiqué <-september.org>, steve

They *should* be separate, but it's possibly with fumbling gloved
fingers to get the SO CEV dip switch in to a both on position.

Especially as I now discover mine has probably only got the original
weedy 100w windings.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

The regulator (assuming it's a shunt type which it almost certainly
is) doesn't really come into play until there's surplus...

But the rectifier might contribute a tiny bit more oomph if diodes
with lower forward drop were substituted. About all he can do is to
reduce load, going to LED[1] lights will be a good way to start. Fitting
a new rotor with more magnetism might give a bit more but at a huge cost.

Probably best to just drop back to the highest lumen/watt H4 he can
find in a 35W/35W variety and forget about doing much night riding.

[1] 0.2W (and they're bright) LED instrument lamps here:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-...Page&category=CAR&Page2Disp=/specs/74_t15.htm
or
http://bit.ly/ewJgHw