Paging Champ

Get your snowboard packed :
http://www.everestnews.com/stories2005/everestcopter05232005.htm

 

<books tickets>

 

Best just give it the one go :
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/09/0927_020927_siffredi.html

 

Carry your bags, sir?

Oh fuckit, I'll buy my own.
--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

It always amazes me that there isn't enough air to breathe, yet there is
enough for planes to get lift and helicopters (possibly even more
impressive) to fly.

 

"He took risks but calculated every move," said van Westering. "If
anyone was going to pull this off, it would have been him."

lol

 

Well, that is what the article is all about, and it really is quite
amazing that a heli can get that high.

 

I think you are missing the point that air is mostly nitrogen and it is
the absence of oxygen which is the problem at the summit. A plane will
generate lift in the absence of oxygen.

--
Martin:
"For a minute there, you bored me to death."
VTR1000 Firestorm
TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html
martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com

 

Martin says...

Eh?, The ratio of oxygen/nitrogen will stay the same regardless of
altitude, or am I missing something.

 

The ratio will stay the same however the density of oxygen wont be
enough to support you breathing however the remaining nitrogen gas will
be dense enough to generate lift when an aerofoil is moved through it.

--
Martin:
"For a minute there, you bored me to death."
VTR1000 Firestorm
TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html
martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com

 

**** yes, how much is this Eurocopter baby?
<rattles piggybank>

'Hog

 

I think you are missing the point. It's the density of the air which
is reduced - the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen should be roughly the
same. Aerofoil surfaces (be they on fixed wing aircraft or helis)
work against the air - less of it means less lift.

 

You're both right, but Martin's point answers the apparent paradox -
the air can overall still be dense enough to provide lift whil the
oxygen content, per unit volume (i.e. it's density) is too low to
support normal respiration.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

<thinks>

An aerofoil will generate lift in a gas, be it oxygen, nitrogen or
some combination (i.e. air). It will not generate lift in a vacuum.
As altitude increase, air density decreases, until, eventually, one is
on the edge of space and in an effective vacuum. The lift generated
by an aerofoil will therefore decrease with altitude. This rate of
decrease will be at the same rate at which the breathable oxygen
content decreases.

Now, it might be that the oxygen density dips below that which a human
needs at some point where a particular aircraft can still get lift,
but that's because you're comparing apples with oranges (human
respiratory capacity vs the physics of an aerofoil), not because the
aircraft can use the nitrogen which the human can't. The thing the
human uses (oxygen) decreases at the same rate that the thing the
aircraft uses (air).

 

And posts perfectly correct stuff, but nothing new.

Yes. That's right. Which is what the OP was expressing surprise at.
Hence the comparisons that were being made.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Are you sure about that? I'll agree it seems logical on the surface,
but I wouldn't like to assume that the ratio between the constituent
parts of 'air' doesn't change at different altitudes, & even in
different parts of the globe - over rainforests compared to over
deserts for example. But wibble.

 

Oxygen is substantially more dense than Nitrogen, but the composition of the
atmosphere is pretty uniform - photochemical effects notwithstanding - over
the sorts of altitudes we're talking about. The action of wind and weather
counteracts what might have been a tendency for Oxygen to "settle at the
bottom"

 

http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfjps/1400/atmos_struct.html
It's layered
HTH

'Hog

 

I've re-read Martin's post, and to say it was open to
misinterpretation is being charitable, imo.

 

I suspect that this is a moot point seeing as planes can fly over the
Himalaya

--
Martin:
"For a minute there, you bored me to death."
VTR1000 Firestorm
TDR250 http://ukrm.net/BIKES/Yamaha/tdr250.html
martin dot smith nine zero three at ntlworld dot com