OT .. Fahrenheit 911

I went to see the movie .. today..There were no astonishing surprises.. no
new revelations that turn anyone around.. Most of us have seen the events
unfold over the years.. The events .. mostly unfolded before our eyes via
the miracles of our TV sets and the daily newscast that we have been
watching.. Many of the details surrounding these events are not common
knowledge..

During a work day of the week, the crowds were minimal and quiet.. During
the running of the film, there was mostly quiet in the AMC theater.. An
occasional gasp or a muted sob could be detected as the audience was moved
by particular segments of the movie..

This film is definitely not recommended for everyone. Objective viewing of
this movie is difficult.. Some don't have the profound depth to grasp the
significance of the message.. None can dispute the events.. as I said.. we
all watched them unfold before our eyes..

Michael Moore makes no bones about this film being one that is critical of
George W.Bush and this administration.. His own personal distaste for this
president is evident in all his comments.. He has publicly stated that he
welcomes "pirating" of this movie.. He has stated that he would like for the
film to be shown to all who want to see it, as long as it isn't shown for
profit..

As the movie was shown, I was interested to see the reactions reflected by
the audience.. I saw, tears.. tears shed for the grief and the anguish
shared .. There was some laughter, as some of our leaders projected idiotic
imbeciles in some of their own reactions to questions and events.. There was
some outrage and as these horrific events were replayed before our eyes..
There was the reaction of fear, as the audience watched our world being
turned upside down ..

Regardless of political persuasion of party.. Democrat or Republican..
thoughtful people should see this movie.. Obviously.. this movie is not
intended for the faint of heart..

I watched carefully as the audience filed out of the theater.. The
expressions on the faces.. rage.. despair.. fear, grief and sorrow was
reflected .. I don't believe anyone who views this powerful film could
remain unmoved ..

Regardless of opinion of the author and producer of this movie.. Michael
Moore.. the message taken away after seeing it should make all of us .. more
considerate and thoughtful about the direction of our nation .. We should
all consider just what kind of country we want to live in..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Thanks..

I saw 'Bowling for Columbine', made a

This film is not intended for "entertainment" purposes..

Second, I will never see this

I didn't see the "Bowling" movie that Moore did, although I have seen the
clips of his interview with Heston.. He didn't have to "set up" Heston..
Heston "set up" himself and then walked away..

The film is not about Michael Moore.. although he conducted most of the
interviews in it.. Many have made the claim that he is a liar and other
derogatory definitions.. Specifically.. you nor anyone else can point out
one lie or false claim that he makes..

He is a liar and a sneek, among the worst of society.

Really..Conducting interviews in broad daylight and in public doesn't
indicate being "sneaky"..Spontaneous questions posed to people who can't or
won't answer them isn't "sneaky".. So far.. all the criticism has been about
Michael Moore, himself.. You haven't disputed one specific in this film..
How could you ? You haven't seen the movie..

But that

Rather than refute or dispute anything in this film, you have referred to
another film that Moore has done.. I haven't seen it and have no comment..
This one I have seen .. You haven't .. Attacking Moore seems to be the only
retaliation from Bush supporters.. The events and details surrounding them
are true, not re-enactments.. Hard to refute.. Go see the film and get back
to me when you know what you are talking about..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

No need for me or anyone else to defend Michael Moore.. I haven't done that
... Also.. I haven't seen the Colombine film.. No interest in it.. I have
seen the 911 film ..

Be sure to understand what the question was before you try to analyze the
answer..

The question wan't about his relatives.. it was about his own children..
Kennedy commenced talking about his sister.. her son.. and other nephews and
distant relatives..

Again.. the question was about his and his colleagues urging their own
children to enlist in the military to help in the struggle in Iraq... What
you are saying was printed is "out of context".. Better see the film before
you take it apart..

Don't know about his "old stuff"... I do know about the particular segment
you are talking about.. All this was in context of a mother grieving about
the loss of HER son..

The details in this film is the important consideration.. Not whether the
producer or author of it, is ugly.. or credible.. What you are doing is to
place crediblity on Moore .. nothing addresses the credibility of the
movie.. Notice .. I mention movie..

Details surrounding the information and why certain decisions were made
toward these events is what is important..

I do know that one of the elements of his film was

That wasn't even one of the points made concerning the evacuation of the bin
Laden family.. Again.. see the movie and decide for yourself ..

I don't recall the exact definition of the person making the call to
evacuate the bin Laden family.. Clarke is a very miniscule part of the
entire episode..

Who is to argue with who actually was responsible for evacuating the bin
Laden family.. There were other things considered in the entire question..
Out of context again..

You too, pard.. Good weekend to run these things.. Next week.. I intend to
be in Arizona, with my old friend.. See you..

 

My definition of a wormy little shithead is Albert Nurick..

Albert Nurick is a "bozo" who makes "nothing" and tends to try and fly with
no wings.. LMAO.. Have you seen the film, "wormy"..??

No matter how it is viewed.. and obviously you are talking with your head up
your ass, as usual.. You haven't seen the movie, so why are you even
involving yourself in the discussion.??

 

That's really ignorant. Wow! Of the entire interview, which I just
went back and viewed the interview step by step to be sure, you can
only come up with that?

Did Heston say that gun violence in this country is due to racial
(ethniticity) problems? Of course he did. Did Heston say that he knew
about the shooting in Flint which he held a rally after the event? Of
course he did. Did Heston say the rest of his interview without being
told what to say? Of course. You can't dispute that. I watched the
scene you refer to and found that Moore called Heston and from the
back of Moore you can see Heston turn around. Moore then holds up a
piece of paper and says "this is her...this Mr Heston" and Heston then
turns back around before the cut showing Moore's front. I'm sure they
didn't have a large film crew to film this on that tiny sidewalk in an
estate where at that time they weren't welcome.

Try your argument again to prove Moore to be a liar.

Moore wasn't talking about having the congressmen send someone else's
kids to Iraq....he already knows they are capable of that. He was
talking about sending THEIR kids to Iraq to be shot apart. So, what's
your point with this?

FWIW, Dan Godwin of Fox in Dallas made an ass of himself the other day
by trying the same crap you're trying. He was saying the whole film is
phoney because of that one scene, and unfortunately he didn't see it
to dispute anything in it...or as I'd suspect he couldn't dispute the
facts in the movie. The movie shows the "real deal" up close and
personal.

It's nice to see how when someone on your side is made an ass of
themselves, it's a "set up".

Funny, but if you knew anything about Moore...like you think you know,
you'd know that Keyes was his man in 2000 also.

I'll bet you have no clue why either.

 

Evidence..?? huh ??

That's ok, it takes all kinds to make the world, if everyone

WTF are you talking about. ?? My original post on this thread was
concerning my impression of the movie "Fahrenheit 911".. You haven't even
seen the movie and have no idea what you are talking about other than to try
to discredit Michael Moore.. LOL..

I seem to recall that Moore did, in fact, support Ralph Nader in the 2000
election.. I didn't.. For whatever that is worth..

Damn bubba.. where'd the tax thing get involved in this thread ? Hmmm...
you are beginning to sound like a few of our other "anonymous" heroes on
this newsgroup..

Have you explained all this to your legislative representative or senator..
?? I am under the impression that you live in the Austin area.. Sheesh..
what are you doing hasseling taxes on this newsgroup.. Take it to the floor
of our legislature in Austin, that is where the action is.. The discussion
was your attempt to discredit a movie which you have not seen.. No ?

Way to go.. couldn't agree with you more.. Let's get this movement organized
and see if we can get it off the ground.. Since you live in the Austin
area.. let me know when we can get together and put a plan on the road..
BTW.. since Nader nor Keyes will be on the ballot in November, who are you
supporting for president.. How 'bout US senator.. your district.. How 'bout
US congress .. your district.. Statewide.. who are you supporting for the
Texas Supreme Court Justice seat..?? We need to mobilize and take this tax
plan to them so we can get their support for it.. Damn.. you should have
been in Houston where all the action was a couple of weeks ago..

No doubt in my mind.. you would be a valuable asset in any political
movement that would benefit bikers or working men and women.. Meantime.. I
sure am interested in all this evidence that I have denied.. If it happens
to cross your mind again, please feel free to stick it on here... OK

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

 

There is a "saying" where I come from.. "Don't start no shit, and there
won't be none".. Beemer is a friend of mine on this group, although we don't
share mutual political views.. Brian doesn't share that friendship with
Beemer Biker..

Another Viewer isn't representative of anything that I would identify with..
either personally or in any other respect.. In any event.. John Moran isn't
the topic of discussion .. My sentiments regarding him were not adequately
expressed by Brian.. LOL.. using anything that John Moran calls "evidence"
is hardly a reliable indication of your own credibility..

This thread was posted by me, in expression of my own impression of a
movie.. What you have done is to dispute that "impression" while you admit
that you haven't seen the movie.. Since that opening post, you have
contributed attacks against Michael Moore, Brian and discreetly, my own
credibility.. All the while, expressing your distaste for engaging in this
type of discussion and preferring to "enjoy the holiday weekend, on your
motorcycle"..

Again.. "Don't start no shit, and there won't be none".. Obviously .. there
are several posters on this newsgroup.. disagree with me on many of the
issues that I advocate.. Another Viewer has been a contributor to that
sentiment.. while he hid behind an anonymous alias during his attacks ..

The "evidence" that you claim I have denied is all on the archives and can
be "googled" easily.. Before you pursue an allegation that you made in
response to Brian, you might take the time to look a little closer.. Texdays
and Another Viewer launched disgusting attacks me and Brian.. There were
five who joined in those attacks.. None of them were justified nor called
for..

Obviously .. you formed your opinion during the prosecution of that flame
war.. <chuckle> I have had the pleasure and the opportunity to personally
meet and become friends with many on this group.. When I post here, I am
expressing my own impressions.. I've never posted under an alias nor
anonymously.. What I have to say is something that I will support.. publicly
and personally.. I've never attacked anyone's wife, mother or children.. The
five who have declared their opposition to Bill Walker or The Walkers, have
supported each other in their disgusting attacks on us, in that manner.. We
have responded.. Do your homework and you will see that "evidence" in the
newsgroup archives in Google.. Hmmm.. Seems I recall a discreet challenge
from you, before the ROT rally..

My impression of Fahrenheit 911 has not been disproved by any "evidence"
that you have posted.. Until you have seen the movie, your comments have no
credibility.. That is what "this" thread is about.. Distracting the
discussion directed toward the author and producer isn't "evidence"..
Distracting the discussion to incorporate trash like John Moran (another
viewer) doesn't establish credibility for your comments.. I also have doubts
concerning your credibility as to your wishes to "enjoy the holiday weekend"
and not engaging in this discussion.. Have a good "fourth" and be careful on
your ride..

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

 

Maybe this link will provide some specifics for you...
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

drax

'04 Sportster 1200

 

Sheesh... Reading comprehension is hard to come by.. Thanks for the
response, but you should be aware that the film in question isn't "Bowling
for Colombine".. Thanks for the link, I haven't seen the movie.. I have seen
"Fahrenheit 911" .. Have you ? Neither is this discussion of this thread,
about Michael Moore.. Pointing out the shortcomings or lies incorporated in
Bowling for Colombine in no way disputes the revelations of Fahrenheit 911
...

Again.. thanks for the contribution to the thread.. please feel free to
dispute the movie after you have seen it..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

He's never been an "inocent victem" of anything. There's a bit of
history between myself and "Beemer Biker" that goes several years
back. You might not be aware of the past events. I don't have any use
for him, as he's made it very well known he doesn't have any regard or
use for me.

As for John Moran, I never paid much attention to him as I've always
regarded him as an arrogant shit-head who's frightened at every turn
of someone running up on him and knowing who he is. I didn't pay
attention to him until he started making an ass of himself and playing
games about his "anonymous" status.

What does either of them have to do with Michael Moore and the
credibility of his movie that's in the theaters now? Did you just run
out of something to say?

Why bother? I've acknowledged the areas you've mentioned of Bowling
for Columbine as the camera angles changed. You didn't address what I
asked you about Heston's interview and part in the movie. Now, to
attack Moore's credibility of Fahrenheit 9/11, you decide to attack
me?

One more thing, I've also (in the past) acknowledged that the speech
shown of Heston in Colorado wasn't shown in it's entirety...but I've
also asked how that version shown was changed from the full speech.
I've never had that addressed either. Perhaps you'd care to expand?
Funny thing about movie making, you can't have a detail of cameras
running all the time and never have a cut...that makes for a really
long motion picture debut. You have to highlight the best work and
scrap the rest while leaving in as much detail as possible.

 

Who's talking about "politics"? You don't even know how my political
thinking is or which way. We are talking about a movie asking the
question of why there's so much gun violence in this country. We are
talking about a scene in that movie where Heston was interviewed, made
a complete ass of himself and walked out of that interview. Does that
make me political?

Tell me from this what you believe my political views are and who I
support for President of the United States. Tell me from this where I
stand on gun control.

I'm going to enjoy waiting for this answer.

<Give you a hint: Myself and "The Other Walker" have had strong
discussions about the upcoming elections and beliefs>

You've been using "Google" again. It wasn't The Awful Truth that he
did that for, but rather aired it later on The Awful Truth.

And the only one's who'd support this would be the most ignorant and
the most wealthy...as well as the corporations (put them in either
category you want).

Without going into much detail, that would have me spending my money
into taxes and corporations spending $0. As it is, I get money back
either equal or over what I pay in and corporations pay the lump of
the amount. Why would I give this up to do just the opposite?

 

What's to deny ? Your link is not any more credible than a referral to a
couple of journalists with an opinion.. In light of the discussion involving
Albert Nurick, I'd say that your own opinion has as little credibility as
his, with me. There is a great deal of desperation to discredit this film,
coming from the supporters of George W.Bush.. Thanks for the "link".. I read
it during the previous week when the movie "opened" in theaters.. There are
quite a few others already available..

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

 

By the same token.. Even Republicans (OK.. the rational ones) realize that
this administration is a disgrace to our nation and has to be replaced...
With this type of defense.. Bush can expect to be evicted from the white
house in January, 2005.. Propagandist or whatever, this movie created by
Moore has damaged the Bush administration more than all the critics..

 

During the film presentation.. many were deeply moved by it.. Those are the
ones who will make the difference.. Regardless.. the discussion has been
about the effort to discredit the film and that effort has mostly been
directed toward the author and producer.. Michael Moore..And I might add, it
is mostly being criticized as a "pack of lies" by people who haven't even
seen the movie.. Very credible critics.. huh ?

I've been advocating the necessity to turn out the vote, for a long time,
now.. Our elections in Texas have been decided by participating voters,
representing four percent of the people.. That is a disgraceful commentary
for Texans.. perpetuating the false perception that Texas is a state that is
owned by Bush and bought and paid for by the republican party..

I have publicly challenged this perception.. So far.. the responses have
been juvenile protests and claims..Not to mention the schoolyard threats..
LMAO.. Getting the voters to the polls is the answer to these questions and
I have proposed that it be the priority objective for a long time..

Seemingly.. the greatest opposition to this idea is advanced by the
so-called republican supporters of George W.Bush and Tom DeLay.. Their
objective it seems is to discourage as many voters (other than base
supporters) as they can.. Could be, that if the voter turnout in November is
in proportion to the population, they will be turned out of office.. I agree
with that concept.. After many miles to various parts of this state, and
talking to people throughout, I believe that politicians like the ones
holding office, will be rejected by the voters.. Including some of the
democrats holding office..

For whatever it is worth, my contribution to this effort will hopefully have
some effect.. Like Sputnik.. I may not have done my best, but I keep on
trying every day...

Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.

 

You won't ever see anything like that from either of the two Walker
bozos.

They won't ever admit to a mistake even when it is patently obvious to
the most casual observer. I find it very humorous that they feel it is
some sort of triumph to possibly figure out who I am, even when there is
a goodly amount of information readily available. The most humorous
thing is that in the midst of all their puffery, they still get it
wrong, exactly like when Brain thought BeemerBiker was me. You'd have
thought from his crowing over naming Beemer and his website as me that
he was Sherlock Holmes, but after Beemer pointed out that Brain was
completely wrong, it turns out Brain was merely a bumbling Inspector
Cluseau and silently slipped away to return another day. I think most
everybody on the newsgroup was laughing over that one. The Walkers love
to dish out the verbal abuse but they can't take it in the least when it
is given back to them. This has little to do with the topic, but I
felt it was appropriate to comment since you mentioned me.

Michael Moore was previously an editor for Mother Jones News. That
pretty much spells out where he's coming from. Moore's entertaining
like Rush Limbaugh is entertaining; each can shape the same story to fit
their particular viewpoint.

 

There has been no mistake whatsoever about Another Viewer (John Moran)..
None at all.. even the "casual observer" has been able to sort out what you
are.. My opinions of you have been qualified without question..

I find it very humorous that they feel it is

hmmm... that is extremely humorous considering the effort you made to not be
identified..

The most humorous

"They" didn't get anything wrong.. Brian made a mistake when he identified
Beemer Biker as Another Viewer..

You'd have

It was kinda funny.. Not in the way that you seem to appreciate, though..

The Walkers love

When a detestible, little perverted creep posts trash about people on a
public forum, the way that you do, he better be ready for repercusions..
LOL.. My opinion of you hasn't changed and it is more relevant each time you
post..

This has little to do with the topic, but I

Of course, that would be ascertained with your vast "clinical experience"
with Baylor University, who has never heard of you... LMAO.. Especially your
experience with obscene porno sites which you frequent..

In all your wisdom, you have totally missed the point of this entire
discussion.. LOL.. Guess that is the result of all that imaginary
association with Baylor University . Get real "fat boy".. Any credibility
you had, was destroyed.. when you made that stupid claim.. Again.. my
opinion of you has been pretty well been emphasized..

 

What's there to deny? You'd have to be specific. All that article does
is just notate other books which were written and doesn't go into any
detail.

Deny this (and I'll be specific):
Karzai was a Unocal envoy before September 11th, 2001 and has since
been hand placed by the Bush administration to reside as "President"
over Afghanistan...where right after taking over from the Taliban
allowed the pipeline from the Caspian Sea to run through
Afghanistan...which construction began. Where's the priorities to
fight terrorism in that?

George W. Bush (even in the article it hits on this) was part of a
Carlyle Investment Group (there's not real products they sell...just
investments in other companies and people) company during the time
when his dad was President and received funding based on being part of
that group. The bin Laden family has funneled monies to Bush through a
number of sources since the time he left the Texas Air Guard. Many of
the people placed in prominant positions since January 2001 have been
people who had a great part in "investing" in Bush. The most
noteworthy have been the one's placed in positions involving Saudi
Arabia and Afghanistan.

The article clearly admits that most of that $1.4 billion dollars
cited in the movie as being invested in the Bush's was given to BDM.
It admits that BDM was part of the Carlyle Group. It goes on to say
that this was before Bush joined the company. It also says the money
was given during the time before Bush ran for governor. Two items
strike me about this...which Bush are they talking about at which time
and if the Carlyle Group hasn't received any monies from the Saudi's
since that time, why on earth would they have people like Baker and
Bush (George H.W.) visiting them and negotiating deals?

I'm more concerned with things that aren't semantics and the article
didn't touch on. In fact, no one has touched on the areas of interest
in that movie.

Do you deny that the law firm representing the Saudi's during the
lawsuits filed by the victims of September 11th was none other than
that of James Baker's firm? Do you deny that during 2001, the entire
Bush administration was denying Iraq had weapons of mass destruction
and only after Sept 11th, 2001 were they saying they had capabilities
of nuclear and biological weapons? Do you deny that the first look
towards a place to invade after September 11th was to Iraq? Do you
deny we are being played with the "terrorism scares"? Do you deny that
we are currently in a conflict where we have soldiers dying on a daily
basis and more injured almost on the hour? Do you deny that
conferences were held by corporations (Microsoft...the leading owner
in MSNBC for one) which the topic was to discuss how much money could
be made off the war in Iraq and which companies should get what part
of the "pie"? Do you deny that Haliburton has received many contracts
(uncontested) in Iraq which would lead in a money making deal the
longer the war continues? Do you deny any of this? Name a single part
in this movie which you yourself know about and know it to not be
true.

The good part about one of us (me) having an open mind and seeing
other people's viewpoints is that I know information that you don't.
If you disagree with Moore's movie, you're welcome to go get yourself
some financing and do a movie of your own. You can call it "Fahrenhate
9/11"...or something like that. I somehow doubt you'll do that since
you apparently have no opinions of anything other than what you read
on MSNBC (Microsoft being a leading owner of).

 

How do you know ?? Albert Nurick hasn't seen the film and I doubt that you
have.. Dispute or refute the film.. when you have seen it.. I have not
testified to the veracity of every detail in the film.. It is a movie..
Apparently you nor Albert Nurick think that you are qualified to judge the
film, even though you have no idea of the content..

LMAO.. furthur search would reveal many critics of the film who attest to
it's accuracy.. Dismiss them.. or dispute them.. Dispute any part of the
film, if you can..I have seen the film.. obviously .. you haven't..

Better take another look.. I haven't referred to Isokoff as anything.. When
you lie .. at least lie about something that is not so recent..

Where it takes a second hit is in assuming that I'm a Bush

Actually.. you make the mistake of thinking that I place any importance on
what you or Albert Nurick support.. You are a baldfaced liar and you have
exposed that about yourself in this post response..

The fact is, I disagree with our President on a number of

**** you .. mealy mouth.. you are a goddamed liar as well as Albert Nurick..
Both of you are two faced little irrelevant pricks ..In all likelihood..
neither of you even vote..much less support a candidate.. Now I presume you
next response will be that "Bill Walker is attacking me".. Damn right..
that's exactly what I am doing.. When you sling shit at me, don't be
surprised when it flies back at you... Some of your comments in this
response have been just that...

 

Waste of energy and time.. this irrelevant little mealy mouthed bastard is
another Albert Nurick... LMAO.. neither of them have ever supported any
candidate for any office.. Keyboard warriors are the sleaziest breed.. These
two are typical of the breed...

 

You and Brain struggle to find things when finding them doesn't help
your arguments. Then you get the rest wrong or choose to ignore it by
posting threats and insults in order to obfuscate. You are definitely
borderline psychotic in your dealings with people with whom you disagree
and you lose self control easily. Your antics at the state Dem
convention only prove that.

Others here have had no problem finding the referenced information
posted by me nor do they have the history of posting gross errors like
mistaking BeemerBikers web site for one of mine, hurling insults and
then not owning up to the blatant error when it is pointed out.

In fact, just to shove it in your face, I not only manage a research
foundation in conjunction with the Baylor College of Medicine, I also
have a pretty good history of making hit records and film soundtracks.
Chew on that for a while.


This has nothing to do with the Moore 9/11 film thread, so carry on if
you want to rant. You're boring and not worth any more of my time today.