Oh, so it wasn't all about oil after all, then...

Wicked Uncle Nigel says...

Funny how this line is trotted out time and time again, usually by
those who've never been in the forces.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Lozzo

So they don't follow the orders of their commanders? New democratic
system is it?

"Chaaaaaaaarge!"

"Hang on, we haven't taken a vote yet..."

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
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Most recruits are young, if they thought they'd actually die they woudn't
join,
it's like saying policeman think they'll be killed or motorcyclists for that
matter.

It's something like 26 times more likely isn't it, to die on a motorbike*?

*may be talking crap here

 

rob2 wrote:

Bollox. I was told I'd be dead in a year on a bike.

Probably depends where you ride.

You fit in well then.

 

I agree, soldiers can't pick and choose their wars - which is why it is up
to us to elect politicians who remember that the armed forces are made up of
people and not pawns to be thrown away for political advantage.

If we end up with politicians who think they can kill our own troops to
further nobody's ends but their own then it is our duty to hold those
politicians accountable for what they've done.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Did they say which year?

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
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BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Ummm, no.

Shit

 

Bear says...

As citizens of the UK we trust in our govt to make the right choices
for the good of all concerned, including our servicemen. When those in
govt lie and twist things to suit their own agendas then someone must
be accountable, in this case Tony Blair as it was he who gave the order
for them to go to Iraq. I think this especially true in this case as it
has cost the lives of many of those servicemen.

Our troops will go where they are told to, they have no choice from the
moment they sign on the dotted line, we'd have a shit time of it if
they didn't. It's not bravery that sends them, it's an order they are
told to follow. Blair knows this and has used them for his own means,
and not for what they are there for. The man is nothing more than a
liar and a killer. He knew there were no WMD and that Saddam was not a
terrorist threat but he sent troops anyway to help his mate Bush.

The reasons we went to war with Iraq were tenuous to say the least. As
Platy pointed out, even the Attorney General was very dubious about it
and wouldn't give a concrete answer.

 

To be absolutely fair he is a lawyer, so there was a very low chance of him
giving a concrete answer on _anything_.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
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The speccy Geordie twat.

 

Bear says...

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Lozzo

Time of relatively full employment. The forces always lose people when
there are other job options.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
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Wind back a few decades to the end of WWII, where it was made very plain to
all and sundry that "I was only following orders" was not a credible defence
against charges of war crimes. What's a cannon fodder to do?

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, platypus

Not sign up in the first place?

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

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Lozzo wrote

I had an interesting chat with my father the other day about some of
this and he was telling me that whatever he felt of the rights and
wrongs of publicly stated motivations about going into Iraq he rather
wishes there had been a Blair type around in about 1936 as it might have
meant a few more relatives for me grandmother to sponge off in the
following decades.


I am glad it was all done early rather than late but I feel I have been
lied to when I needn't have been and I don't like that.

 

Wicked Uncle Nigel says...

The ones I know who've left have done it because they have seen people
die because Tony Blair lied to the country about Saddam's WMD and his
other reasons for going to war with Iraq. None of them was due to leave
the forces as soon as they have. All had planned to make a lifetime
career of it. Some do not have jobs yet.

So you think Blair was right to send our troops to war with Iraq on a
lie, and that he shouldn't be brought to book for the deaths of those
who've died?

 

IMO, it was not a just war. Bush made up every thing, lied and then
conned Blair into coming along. We do not belong there and you sure as
hell don't.

True, but he should have never been there to begin with.
--
Mike

SV650
UKRMMA#22
Skype: muddycat

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Lozzo

I think that it hasn't been proven that it was on a lie. If Blair really
could reasonably believe the intelligence he was given, then his
decision was justified *at the time*.

*Even if that intelligence later turned out to be flawed*.

I'd quite like to see a *proper* inquiry into the whole thing, mind.
It's just that that will probably never be possible, certainly not this
close to events.

Every time I see Howard spouting his "He lied!" line, I am reminded of
whoever it was who said on here that Howard would bugger his dead granny
on live TV if he thought it would get him into number 10.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

I think Tony's very good at believing what he wants is right. On top of
which, he's a fearful starfucker: look at news film of him with Clinton or
Bush. He's got big "I love you" eyes on, and the body language is wide
open. He wants to be their poodle. He's about one step away from begging
with his tongue hanging out.

This is not good for the leader of the country.

There were plenty of people explaining well in advance of the invasion
exactly why it was wrong, illegal, and a bad idea.

 

The second time around he thought it was. I for one would
be quite interested to hear what sort of arm twisting went
on between his original "it's probably illegal" memo and
"it's possibly legal" memo.

(and whoever made the comment about a lawyer never giving
a straight answer is quite right, they're trained that way.
Even in the one law class I've taken so far it was made very
clear that giving "definite" answers to anything would be
marked down. Liberal use of "maybe", "perhaps" and "possibly"
was the order of the day.)